Jesse Byrd is only 33, but he has already accomplished amazing things. From a college basketball scholarship player, to authoring and publishing childrens’ books, to starting his own publishing house, with stops in Dubai and Silicon Valley along the way, it’s clear Jesse’s mind is always working.
He joins The Savvy Entrepreneur show to talk about his journey to create Jesse B. Creative, a publishing house featuring under-represented children’s book authors and illustrators. He shares a little bit about what it’s like inside the children’s book publishing world, as well as lots of tips for budding entrepreneurs and aspiring book authors.
What follows is a transcript of our interview. If you’d rather listen to the podcast version, go here instead!
Doris Nagel 0:42
Hey, all you entrepreneurs! Welcome to The Savvy Entrepreneur show!
The show has two goals. First, to share helpful information and resources. If I can help just one of you entrepreneurs out there to not make some of the mistakes I’ve made or that my clients have made, then I’ve been successful.
The second goal is to inspire. I don’t know about you, but I found sometimes being an entrepreneur is confusing. It’s often lonely. You have no idea sometimes if you’re on the right track or not, or where to turn for good advice.
To help, I have guests on the show every week who are willing to share their stories and advice.
And this week’s guest is Jesse Byrd. He is a very accomplished young man — author, editor, publisher and head of storytelling at his own firm, JesseBCreative. He is an award-winning children’s book author. He’s also the creative director for You Wish, a company founded by the former NBA All Star Baron Davis.
In addition, he’s the youngest African American NPR Foundation Board member. He started out in college as a successful basketball player, hopscotched from there to Silicon Valley, and finally pivoted to pursue his true passion of storytelling for young and old audiences.
His company is a children’s book publisher, and its aim is to make available children’s picture books by marginalized groups that largely feature those marginalized groups.
Jesse, thanks so much for being on The Savvy Entrepreneur. Welcome to the show.
Jesse Byrd 2:09
Doris, thanks so much for having me. I’m really excited to be here.
Doris Nagel 2:12
I’m excited to have you! Talk a little bit about your business. What do you do? And who do you do it for?
Jesse Byrd 2:24
I’m on the publishing side, so what we do is we create books, just as you mentioned so eloquently, that reflect marginalized communities but also are created by people within that lived experience, which we are really, really passionate about.
We think those books and content come out richer, and higher quality, when the folks who are closest to that experience get a chance to speak for themselves, as opposed to someone speaking for them or reaching across the aisle.
We think those books give kids a more honest reflection of the spectrum of different communities and different lived experiences. That way, you can hear straight from the folks who made it. And so that’s largely the goal: to increase diversity, equity and inclusion across children’s content.
Doris Nagel 3:10
What exactly does a publisher do? And what doesn’t it do?
Jesse Byrd 3:17
Part of it’s a little bit like an agent for music. You scout and you go through a lot — I look at a lot of artists’ portfolios — about 500 a week for illustrators specifically — always looking for someone who has sort of the right style to match with a manuscript we’ve already acquired, or one that we’re developing.
That process of matching the Illustrator and the script is, I imagine, much like a casting agent in a film, where you’re trying to find the right person for the right role. It’s very much a lock and key situation. And that’s a big part of the process, because acquisitions is a big deal.
We also develop in house content as well. And then we help with amplifications of the stories, like the strategy for getting them out, which we’ll talk about later.
We’re a B2B-centric company, which means our primary target customer isn’t actually individuals. It’s actually schools and libraries. And so we focus on bulk sales first [and foremost].
Doris Nagel 4:20
I’ve talked to other people who have written books, not necessarily children’s books, but the art of promoting your book, I suspect is quite a different thing. You can write a great book, but if nobody reads it or finds it, it’s not so useful, right?
Jesse Byrd 4:41
Exactly. Being an author is like being a chef. You cook this food, in hopes that people will enjoy it and find some type of substance and value in it.
You wouldn’t want to cook it in a vacuum and then have nobody actually be able to enjoy what you work so hard to make. And so authorship is very similar.
Doris Nagel 5:03
Talk about your journey from being a college athlete – a power forward basketball player – to becoming a successful children’s book author and then a publisher, and also hitting Silicon Valley along the way.
Jesse Byrd 5:42
In college, while I was playing basketball at UC Santa Barbara, I was given a gift. For the first time in my entire basketball career — which had been most of my cognizant life — I had an injury that required a minor surgery. I had never had surgery before, never had an injury before, at least anything serious.
So that injury my junior year was a chance for the first time in my life to step off the hamster wheel of doing practice, weights and conditioning, booster events, game –, you know, all of the things that come with being a collegiate athlete.
I had the chance to actually re choose my sport. I asked myself, “Did I really want to continue doing this post college?” It was a good opportunity to re-examine what lights me up during that recovery period, which was only eight weeks. So not that long in the grand scheme of things. If it was an ACL tear, for example, it would have been six months.
But during those eight weeks, I got a chance to really do some self-reflecting. If I’m being honest, I went through something that I can now identify as a mild depression. Because I was having an identity separation crisis. Basically, I had aligned my identity and who I am with what I do. I had aligned my value with my craft.
And it was my first time getting a chance to separate the two and really think about who I am beyond what I do. And to really think about what I want to give. What dish did I feel like I’m meant to bring to the potluck of life?
And [I realized] it was storytelling for young audiences. That’s what lights me up. That’s what gets me going. And I never regretted the choice to walk away from basketball and continue to move deeper onto this path.
Doris Nagel 7:34
The reality is like the TV commercial, right? Most collage athletes are going to go pro in something other than sports.
And I can only imagine what a challenge it is for people who are so immersed in it. I saw some of the same things with my daughter, who was into horseback riding, As you said, it becomes your entire life. It’s not just the amount of time and hours of practicing you spend, but it’s also your entire social network. Because it’s so all consuming.
So I can see why you say it was a gift. Because for a lot of kids who are athletes, I’m sure it doesn’t really hit them until its senior night, and they walk out onto the court or the field for the very last time. And then reality sets in: okay, now what?
Jesse Byrd 9:05
Exactly, and the gift wasn’t so much the pivot away from basketball, it was just the chance to actually choose it with intentionality as a career path. If it was what I wanted to do, well, here’s a chance to double down and really make it into to a career. But if not, then here’s also an opportunity for a departure into something you’re more passionate about.
Doris Nagel 9:28
How and when did you decide to start just Jesse B Creative?
Jesse Byrd 9:34
Well, that came with another departure. After my junior season, I wrote my coach a handwritten letter, and I told him that I would not be coming back for my senior season of basketball, that I needed to learn how to become a writer and a storyteller the same way I had learned how to become an athlete. There are fundamentals, there are techniques, there’s time on task. I had none of that, and I was about to be in the real world. Boom.
So I just wanted to practice, cut my teeth a little bit and learn the craft. Study, read some books, all that stuff.
And so I did that while working in my first job fresh out of college. I was still basically trying to improve as a storyteller while I was working at Google, in Mountain View, California. I was very fortunate to have that. I always say Google was my grad school, because they taught me a lot that I would use later in my business, like company structure, and team building processes. And just a way to go about business that I resonated with, and still do, with a lot of those values and principles.
So, I was working at Google. And this is kind of life and job is very comfortable in many ways. There are 16 different cafeterias on the Main Campus, biking to and from campus, gyms all over the place, doggy daycare, childcare, a laundry mat. Just about anything you can imagine that you might need was made readily available to you.
But I kept getting that same sort of nagging feeling that I got playing basketball. I felt like I wasn’t making a unique contribution. I was doing something that might benefit my immediate circle, which is awesome. But in the end, it felt a little selfish, Doris. S
If I’m being honest, I felt like I was living my first world advantages. And I had parents who valued education and invested in that and sacrificed for me to have that.
But one day, I just kind of took my ball and went home. I didn’t really feel like I was doing anything that uniquely impacted people directly. I wanted something larger, and outside of myself and my circle.
And so after my first book was finished, I decided to quit and raise money to self-publish that first children’s book. I quit after a year and a half. I did not raise the money.
I kid you not. I was a young 20 something million 22 I was broke in a very expensive San Francisco Bay Area living academy. And I had to go back to work.
So I went back. I was very lucky that they gave me my old job back and even gave me some other cool stuff to do while I was there. I did that for another year and a half. And then I quit again to raise again. Which mu family at this point, I’m sure thought that I was probably just on the moon. Why quit Google Plus to go into the arts? They were like, “Oh, goodness, what are you doing?”
But I just knew. And I do have a roadmap for this. We can talk about this a little further down the line. But my mom did something very similar to launch her publishing career. And I’m sure she modeled that sort of behavior. I knew that Google wasn’t going anywhere, you know. Companies like that aren’t going anywhere.
So, if I’m going to try something and sort of maybe even dig myself into a hole, then my early to mid-20s with no kids and no mortgage is the time to do this. You get more involved the later on you get to in life.
So, the second time, I did raise enough money. And that’s how the first book sold. And then the second book won some awards. And the third book won some awards. And it started becoming a self-sustaining thing financially over time.
Doris Nagel 13:26
Wow. Were all of your books self-published?
Jesse Byrd 13:32
Yeah, and it was pretty intentional for me. Well, let me let me backtrack that for a second. Because while I was at Google, I was thinking about the path of least resistance. I thought, “I’ll just finish my book and submit it to some publishers and agents and see if I get any traction.”
After submitting to about roughly 200 publishers and agents combined, and getting either no response or all rejection letters, I figured I have a whole mountain of rejection letters. And I think the interesting thing is, this isn’t a unique experience for a lot of creatives and a lot of authors specifically.
But I felt like the book had some value, even if it wasn’t going to reach a bajillion people. Maybe it was just going to inspire 10 kids to read, and I felt like that would still be worth it. So, I started the publishing company to sort of house these outfits.
And then once the book was done, I submitted it to a few awards, and then they won. It got a place in the Paris Book Festival Award, and in Los Angeles, as well as in a couple of other places. And then there were opportunities to go the traditional publishing route, but at that point, I kind of liked being involved from end to end.
And it wasn’t really the time for me to explore that option. And it was a very intentional reason why I wanted to start a publishing company for equity access and to create opportunities for others.
Doris Nagel 14:57
So now, with your publishing house, you’re looking for other authors who were like you, right?
Jesse Byrd 15:11
100%. People whose stories aren’t typically centered in the publishing realm, who need help getting from A to Z, in terms of what it is that they’re building and what they’re passionate about.
And then the flip side of that is when I played at school, so all publishers have basically a maximum amount of bets they can make within a given quarter.
And for the bigger publishers, that’s going to be more maybe they can take on 20 new titles, maybe they can acquire 50 new titles for smaller publishers and imprints that maybe something like five or seven, but everybody has a threshold. And I think once most publishers hit that threshold, they just closed the door.
Doris Nagel 15:50
What’s is the threshold is based on?
Jesse Byrd
It’s just based on budget and pure bandwidth. How many books can we afford to acquire? And how many books can we respectively service with quality in terms of development, editorial amplification, book design within a given quarter? So, it’s just bandwidth and budget.
And every publisher has them. And what typically happens is the door closes once they reached that threshold.
But I felt like there’s got to be more stories of value than we can afford to or have the bandwidth to publish, though, also opened up a part of our business to publish your services, like, Look, if our plate is full, and we can’t actually afford to take you on even if we would love to, we still want to help you get from A to Z, even if it’s not with us.
And so we asked, “How can we offer some ala carte services that may make sense for what you need to put your book in the best light to actually have a chance out there?” Because the percentages are really grim. It’s like blowing up the Death Star.
Doris Nagel 17:02
So what are the percentages? I have no idea. I don’t know this part of the industry at all. And I bet a lot of listeners don’t either.
Jesse Byrd 17:10
Submitting to a traditional publisher, you have less than a 5% chance of getting picked up on the first round of review. So over 95% of books will get turned away from traditional publishing.
Now, if you get if you get past that first wave, then you have a 67% chance of getting picked up. So a lot of it is really getting past the gatekeepers. They’re typically the junior agents and the junior published editors within the larger houses. Their sole job is to take the 500 manuscripts that came in this week and put it in the yes pile, the no pile or the maybe pile by Friday at five.
We’ve spoken to a lot of these folks. And it makes total sense to me. A lot of times they use shortcuts to figure out which scripts may make sense. For example, if you submitted your script with a few typos, or you didn’t submit it to the formatting standard that they requested, immediately going into the Nope pile. Because it’s the level of professionalism and attention to detail if you addressed your query letter as to whom it may concern, or dear sir, slash, Madam, immediately going into the notebook? Because you didn’t take the time to figure out who you’re talking to, in this specific instance, as opposed to blanketing emails across all publishers.
Doris Nagel 18:34
Wow. Sounds like the hiring process. You know, unless you fit the algorithm, or you’ve got a gap in your resume, then you’re just out.
Jesse Byrd 18:45
Yeah, not too dissimilar.
Doris Nagel 18:48
How do you find authors for your publishing business? Or how do they hear about you? Do you find them, or they find you, or some of both?
Jesse Byrd 19:00
it’s both. People submit, I find and then I also really enjoy, like matching. Like, if someone has an awesome story or lived experience, sometimes I’ll work with them to develop an original script, even if they’re not traditionally a writer, or they’re not traditionally a children’s book writer. They just have a great story that I think would serve children really well. So you can think of us also as like an incubator, because we get in on the ground floor. And it’s not just projects that are like, already done in Polish that we pick up. Sometimes it’s people and stories that we want to get behind. And then we figure out together, what do we want to make?
Doris Nagel 19:38
So you’re almost like doing like ghost writing for some authors?
Jesse Byrd 19:45
It’s more of a collaboration and I let the sort of whoever’s leading that whoever story that we’re telling that make sure that they tell the story and I’m not writing for them, but then we pair that with an illustrator as well, but also I was very Fortunately, too, um, basically when I moved back to the states from Dubai, I was looking for
Doris Nagel 20:08
Wait, you omitted that amazing part of your journey!
Jesse Byrd 20:11
yeah, we could chat about that. So that’s a whole chapter of how bad how bad. When I moved back, I was looking for a children’s picture book community, it’s not too hard to find, like reading groups and critique groups for adult fiction and things like that on meetup calm and places like that. But I didn’t really find anything specifically relegated to children’s picture books, and a lot of folks that I know want to make them. And so I started. And I think we’re over like 500 members strong now. And a lot of great content to for the publishing company. I mean, the first three acquisitions came from folks in that group, just because they were making amazing content, and I call them a blind eye to how awesome they were doing. So you know, yeah, first time and debut author illustrators, just with really strong stuff that we believe we can help amplify.
Doris Nagel 21:05
What are you looking for in an author or in a book manuscript? What are some of the things that kind of tickle your interest and make you want to hear more?
Jesse Byrd 21:19
Specificity is one for sure. I believe the general is in this specific, I think when you try to tell a general catch all story, you end up really not hitting too many people deeply. But I think if you tell a very specific story, well, then people can find their points of resonance and overlap with it. So I’m definitely looking for somebody who’s not trying to write every person story, they’re trying to tell a story very specifically, and try to do it to a high quality. Also, I’m a big fan, although it’s not appropriate for every situation. I’m a big fan of humor as a vehicle for education, and enlightenment. So not heavy handed or preachy? Because I think that’s a form of laziness. I think, when you just lay it out, you didn’t really take the time of massaging it into the meat, which is what is typically, you want the reader to feel like they’re arriving at their own conclusions that they’re discovering. Not that they’re being dictated to. And, and so that’s important as well, just like making sure that the layers of messaging, if there are any, are, you know, the nutrients are wrapped in, in something delicious?
Doris Nagel 22:34
You are magical with your metaphors! I can you love words. And so that’s a good thing, because you’re working with words all day long.
do you work only with black authors or African American authors or other kinds of marginalized groups as well?
Jesse Byrd 23:00
No, it’s all marginalized groups differently abled, obviously, multicultural for sure. I mean, diversity and the true form of the word. And so you know, definitely not just any one marginalized group, we’re really trying to get those stories that have largely been pushed to the fringe to be centered, to be highlighted to be celebrated more often and done with quality and care. And amplification.
Doris Nagel 23:26
Well, it certainly is true. And I think those of you listening out there, if you think about the children’s books that you’ve looked at, for your kids that are on the in the bookstores, or promoted online, wow, there is really, there’s a real dearth of, of diversity and voices.
Jesse Byrd 23:56
Oh, I couldn’t agree more. And I think what’s even scarier is I was just looking a stat from the ccdc, which tracks diversity in children’s books. I’m just looking at black kids, black families, and representation and children’s picture books. Over 50% of the children’s picture books that feature black characters are not written or illustrated by black people. So what does that typically? What’s the danger of that? Well, appropriation. I mean, if the extreme of it is minstrel shows and blackface and things like that, but even on the even on the less deep side of that spectrum, there’s still a level of ignorance that is inherent with not having lived that experience. I mean, if you’re speaking to the black experience, but you don’t have it, it’s at all, personally, it’s a very specific American experience. And the danger also in that is that you’re informing others, the readers what the black experience might be like, when again, you don’t really know so the same way I would Know what the Asian American experience would be like trying to reach across the island and tell those stories and puppeteer for that walk of life. I think I know for a fact that there are so many gifted creatives within each marginalized communities who have been banging down the doors to get opportunities to write their books, and illustrate their books. And so there’s no lack of talented, qualified, hungry, excited, passionate people in each marginalized community. I think that’s been a myth for a while. That hasn’t been my experience.
Doris Nagel 25:30
What do you look for with illustrators?
Jesse Byrd 25:35
I look for a specific voice, voice, quote, unquote, voice style that’s been developed. So what I mean by that is, they’re not trying to do their best impersonation of Marvel, Marvel’s aesthetic, or Pixar aesthetic, or Disney’s aesthetic, they’ve actually thought about how they want to represent characters and worlds visually. And you can tell that there’s a sense of maturity in their own voice, I imagine it’s the same way you would think about a singer, right? You want the singer to have a certain amount of presence and certain amount of identity, almost like a fingerprint, you know.
Doris Nagel 26:18
But at the same time, you need have a wide enough palette of color, whether it’s vocal color, or whatever, you need to have enough diversity in your palette, so that it’s not boring, either.
Jesse Byrd 26:35
soldier, soldier view, I mean, some of the things that I look at specifically, are character development, I look at environmental development, I look at just what she mentioned, the coloring, shading, lighting point of view, you almost will animate analyze it the same way you would cinematography in a sense, where I mean, illustrators, for picture books are essentially directors in their own right, where they have to choose exactly what angle and from what perspective, you’re going to see each scene and each bit of action, is it going to be a bird’s eye view? Or an ant’s view? Will you be behind the character? Is it going to be a close up? You know, like, they have to think about that, and play with a lot of different angles before they arrive at their conclusion. So I look at all of that for sure. And I’m always in awe of illustrators. I’m a big fan of like, Can you draw me there?
Doris Nagel 27:22
Do you look for illustrators who are also from that marginalized group? Or is it more important? Do you think to just have the match with the story that’s being told?
Jesse Byrd 27:41
I’m absolutely prioritizing and looking for illustrators from marginalized communities, globally. I think this is really important, because I know that, by the numbers, they’re getting fewer opportunities than their counterparts.
So I want to make sure that we’re giving them a place to get paid work opportunities, break through resume matches, in terms of published books, and things like that. Because once you have that rolling, it’s so much easier to sell your second book than your first one. You know, like that’s for real and done and validated.
Doris Nagel 28:20
No one wants to be the first, right? They want to know somebody else has bought in before you. I’ve heard lots of entrepreneurs talk about that when it comes to finding investors for their company, too.
Jesse Byrd 28:37
Very true.
Doris Nagel 28:38
A lot of people I’ve talked to have said, “Oh, I would love to write a children’s book. It would be so easy to write a children’s book. I mean, you know, it’s not so long. There’s not that many words. So, why I could do that?”
So, if it’s so easy, why doesn’t everybody do it?
Jesse Byrd 30:48
I think the illusion when it comes to children’s picture books is exactly as you’ve stated. But what’s really hard, what’s really challenging, is brevity.
You don’t get the word count. If you write a 50,000-word novel, and one paragraph maybe isn’t your best stuff, nobody’s going to throw the book against the wall.
But you can’t afford to burn two pages of text, or even one page of text in a children’s picture book, because of how condensed it needs to be.
So the refinement process is s a very delicate, delicate science, for lack of a better term. It requires quite a bit of intention to whittle and refine, and refine and refine, so that you have the most word-efficient version of whatever it is you’re trying to convey.
They really are kind of like the commercials of the publishing world. You know, when commercials hit and they they’re right, they just they live on in such an amazing space. by so many commercials have, you know, pop up and pop away, because it’s really not an easy craft. And part of the reason that it’s not easy, is exactly the reason people think it is because it’s so short, but try writing a shorter story versus a longer story. You’ll soon see that the length gives you room to play, and to be imperfect. And to go back and figure it out.
The brevity is really quite a tight sandbox. And you’re dealing with 500 to 750 words, in most cases, to tell an [entire story that engages people], maybe educate them as well make them laugh, make them feel in 500 words.
Doris Nagel 32:37
I forget who the famous person was that said, “I would have written you a shorter letter if I’d had more time.”
I had a creative writing professor, who I really enjoyed, but he would have us write a 500-word essay or something. And then he’d say, “Okay, I want you to go back and cut it in half.”
And so you really go through the process of weighing, you know. What can I sneak into this to give it color without taking up a lot of words. And so, unfortunately, there probably are people who could sit down and write a children’s book, but it probably wouldn’t be very good because it hasn’t been through that whittling process.
Jesse Byrd 33:38
Just as we were talking about before, I firmly believe everybody has a very worthwhile and valuable story to tell. For all of us, it’s just figuring out the best way to tell that story. I think everybody I’ve met has a story that can serve and benefit others.
It’s just about how can we work together to get that in a format where it resonates? It sticks. It’s efficient, like, you know, we’ve trimmed the excess, all that good stuff.
Doris Nagel 34:10
What do you think holds a lot of people back from actually writing their story?
Jesse Byrd 34:17
I mean, it was the same thing that I’ve encountered personally: it’s just fear. I mean, if we boil it down, and we think about even character development, sense of characters, typically acting out of a center of fear or love, that’s typically going to be the base of why they’re doing what they’re doing or not doing what they’re doing. It’s the same thing with us as humans. It’s, you know, fear of criticism, fear of rejection.
And then I’m sure mixed in there is probably some fear of, of success, you know, fear that their light is brighter than they thought it was. And now are you going to step into that? You know, is that really what the change Is it really what you want? Because things will come with it, of course.
But I think it’s just plain fear. I mean, we all we all face it. I’ve definitely dealt with quite a bit of it in my career.
Doris Nagel 35:11
I’m curious about the process of looking for authors that you think have a great story. I mean, at some point, you’re probably, and maybe you already have gotten manuscripts from people who send them in? Is there such a thing as a manuscript that’s not workable, that just, you know, just isn’t going to really cut it?
Jesse Byrd 35:38
I never think about it that way. I mean, the question is, is the manuscript right for, sort of, if it’s right for our publishing house, and our sort of outfit and what we’re looking to create, that’s one thing, and we can work together to sort of develop it and pivot it. But if, if it’s on the publisher services side, we just helping somebody else to get their work developed? I don’t ever really look at a work is like, yes or no, I look at this, like, how, how can we make it the best version of itself, not what I want it to be, or anybody else wants to be, but the best version of what the Creator has intended for the audience. And that’s, that’s juicy. I mean, in some stories, I have a higher resonance and ceiling publicly in terms of sales and others. But that doesn’t mean that each story doesn’t have value when it’s the best version of itself.
Doris Nagel 36:31
Going back to a point that we touched on earlier, there are books that are absolutely amazing. But somehow, people just don’t find them. I guess that’s true everywhere with creatives, right?
What in your experience, do you see as the main reasons that some authors are successful, and others just don’t seem to be?
Jesse Byrd 37:00
There’s two sides to publishing: there’s storytelling, and there’s story selling. And they’re both equally important if you want to do it as a career.
Now, if you just want to put something out for your family, or leave it as like a time capsule item, that’s totally fine. That’s valid, and that’s awesome.
But if you really are passionate about making this a living for you, you need to try to work with someone, partner with someone, and hire someone — give someone a percentage of your book sales or whatever they bring in a commission. I think often that latter part of the story selling is neglected, because honestly, the storytelling in and of itself is exhausting.
By the time you finally get to a book that you’re happy with, and you feel good about, you’re just kind of tired. It’s like you’re a marathon runner who’s just finished a marathon, you just want to lay down, but then there’s another marathon in front of you. Now you have to get this in front of people who you think might benefit from it.
And so I really think it’s just not appreciating and honoring, and really respecting the fact that just as hard as you work to make this thing, you’re going to have to work as hard, maybe harder, to actually get it in front of folks and help them know that it exists.
Doris Nagel 38:33
Let’s say there are some budding authors out there in our audience. What kinds of things should they think about? If they’re there, they really want to write a book. And let’s say it’s a good book. But what are the kinds of things that are that you need to be prepared to do if you want your book to be successful, or you want to make a career out of it?
Jesse Byrd 39:00
Well, there’s sort of two main pathways. You can go independently published or traditionally published. Each pathway has a different set of things you need to do next.
If you’re thinking about getting traditionally published, the first thing I always recommend any author of any genre do is please get a professional editor to look at your work. And this isn’t just an editor for copy editing, and grammar and punctuation and spelling. We’re talking character development, plot, pacing, theme, genre readiness, like is it appropriate for the genre that you think it is,
All of these are good things, because honestly, if you’re submitting to an agent or a publisher, we already mentioned that the percentages earlier on in the show, but it the numbers are already going to be difficult enough.
So you want to make sure you’re showing up to the interview with your best self. You want the best version of your body of work in front of that agent or that editor because you might not get another chance. So coming with your best foot forward, at least gives you the knowledge where if this doesn’t work out, then maybe it just wasn’t the right fit right time, what have you, and then you can always back into independently published.
If you’re going with independently published, then same thing, professional editor, but then after – beyond the inside of the book — really think about art design the book cover, of course, but also your go to market strategy.
How are you going to get this in front of people? How are you going to market it, and really spend some time putting on your business hat so that your book can have a chance in a very, very crowded marketplace? Every art marketplace is crowded right. Music is crowded. TV film is crowded, so let’s publish it. So how are you going to stand out amongst the crowd just a little bit?
Doris Nagel 40:43
Can you be behind the scenes and promote your book only via social media, or do you need to be comfortable being somebody who goes out talks to people, does readings, book signings, that sort of thing?
Jesse Byrd 41:01
I think there’s multiple pathways. I do think now more than ever, publishers and people are interested in not just the stories, but the storytellers, largely because we have so much visible access to people we didn’t really have before social media and the internet. And so because of that, I think it can be a back wind to your publishing career, if you are someone who’s comfortable with doing readings with doing signings with doing like appearances and events.
But I would never say it’s an ultimatum. I don’t really like to speak in absolutes.
I’m sure you can have a fantastic career and keep to yourself publicly. But I will say, when it comes to the most successful authors, my mother included, there’s a level of –I don’t want to say showmanship –but you’ve probably got to get on the road. You have to get in front of people right now. That could be zoom, and maybe that’s fine. But I think getting out there just benefits a career.
But I wouldn’t go so far as to say that’s the only way to do it.
Doris Nagel 42:06
The publishing industry, at least to me, has always seemed kind of glamorous. What are some of the realities you’ve learned about the publishing industry? And if there are others listening who might be interested in that path, what do you think they should know?
Jesse Byrd 42:26
Well, I’ll start with what’s really exciting about the publishing industry. Now more than ever, creatives have direct access to the market in ways that just didn’t really largely exist or weren’t viable, even just 15 years ago.
So now you can have a sustainable living making books and not be traditionally published. You can be totally fine outside of the main machine. So I think that’s what’s exciting.
I think traditional publishing as a whole is a very old system, it’s a big ship that turns slowly. And then because of that, there are a lot of opportunities in the market that I’m not sure if a lot of traditional publishers are quite yet positioned to take advantage of and do better.
So for example, one of the reasons why I wanted to start Jesse B Creative is because growing up in the publishing industry, I saw how little royalties authors were taking home. And royalties are where most authors are going to are going to make their living.
The advance is great, but that’s a one time lump sum upfront payment, and it’s still an advance against a royalties.
So if I give you a $300,000 advance, you won’t collect a dime of the royalties until I as the publisher have earned all $300,000 back. And about 75% of books don’t earn out, which means only 25% of authors are actually getting to the royalty phase.
And then even when they get there, they’re looking at 3,5,7, 9%. On net, not even on gross [sales]. So you have to sell a lot of volume to really make substantial royalties.
So, I think there’s an opportunity, because we offer double what the industry average starts at for our artists. Because we believe that if a great artist gets a chance to get to the third, fourth and fifth book, if they can afford to continue making art in this space, you’re typically going to get more carryover. Their names going to have more traction because they have more work out in the market. And they’re probably going to be getting better and better at their craft.
And so everybody benefits if we can just make it more sustainable. There’s such a high turnover in publishing, where even authors who have won awards have to step out of the industry or leave to go find employment that actually gives him/her the money that pays the bills, you know, food on their table.
I saw my mom after being a New York Times bestselling author have to work at Best Buy for two years. I mean, maybe it wasn’t two years, maybe a little shorter than that. But it was still one of those things.
And I admired the hell out of her for that, because, you know, she’s sort of, she’s always been the person to just get it done. Like, it’s not about posturing or accolades. It’s just like, what do we need to do? I’m willing to do it. And I appreciate her for that.
But that shouldn’t even be a thing. You know, that shouldn’t even be a thing.
Doris Nagel 45:40
I hear you. But boy, the world for creatives is it is a very tough world, and not just children’s books or publishing. It’s pretty much every corner of the artistic world.
What for you has been the best part about having your own business, Jesse?
Jesse Byrd 46:01
The biggest thing I’m most passionate about in terms of what I hope to how I hope to serve is just creating pathways of access and opportunity and equity. And I think ownership, which is why I knew I wanted to have a publishing house, as opposed to just being an author on the roster, was that I would actually be in a position to offer somebody else an opportunity — to help them get their voice and their story and their dream out there.
And that’s just infinitely rewarding to me. People have such great stories. There are so many awesome stories I’ve been fortunate to come across in scripts and illustration, talent.
Doris Nagel 46:45
Can you talk about any of those successes?
Jesse Byrd 46:48
For sure. We have a property right now that we actually teed up for another publisher, because ours was our plate was pretty full.
But we had developed it and we had started shopping it. I’m represented personally through Serendipity Literary Agency and Regina Brooks, who is a phenomenal agent. So anything that I don’t necessarily have capacity to put under my own [umbrella], or that I think would be better suited for Regina to shop to her contacts — because she’s awesome — we’ll do that.
So we have this really amazing story co-written by the lead writer on it was Kareena Woo, a disabled Chinese American woman. The book is about the disabled Chinese American girl who wants to dance, and in her school talent show she uses a wheelchair. And she lives in a very homogenous town — think Pleasantville. And she wants to dance and show what makes her besides just what people see. She wants them to see her for her passion, and the things that she loves and her talents, as opposed to just a wheelchair.
So, that’s a story right now that that’s being hotly shopped. And literally, that’s an example of an author who hadn’t thought of necessarily writing a children’s book and hadn’t written before. We worked together [with her] over the course of 18 months, along with Monica Paola Rodriguez from Puerto Rico, who did all the illustrations. And we pulled together this property that we are just super proud of.
Doris Nagel 48:27
Sounds like a great story.
What’s been the hardest part so far?
Jesse Byrd 48:35
The hardest part is just distribution and financing, right? For us, we were lucky to be self-sustaining our sales publisher services, and then a workshop that we run has allowed us to be totally self-sustaining. But if we wanted to sort of trampoline to the next stratosphere, we would need a capital injection of a partnership.
What I’m so grateful for now is that we are partnering with you wish. And a lot of the properties that we have vetted, developed, created, have an ecosystem to has it like a Disney to enter a World of Disney of its own to enter. And having that pipeline, having that partnership, it just benefits everybody, you know, they get content, we get amplification, distribution, celebrity connections, all of that stuff. So this really is such a blessing to be working with them on their properties, because I think it benefits everybody.
Doris Nagel 49:39
What keeps you going when you had inevitable speed bumps or rough patches in the road?
Jesse Byrd 49:48
Simply put, just reminding myself that I work for kids. I think in the business realm of children’s publishing, you can get caught up thinking about all the editors and agents and the public, the other publishers and the schools and the parents.
But at the end of the day, if I keep kids reading and engaged and entertained and happy and informed and all of that jazz, and we have a good time, and they enjoy reading and they lean into it will be fine. But I can’t lose sight of who I work for. And I work for children.
Doris Nagel 50:27
That is a wonderful perspective. I love that. Talk about some of the current initiatives you have, or maybe things that you have planned for the near future?
Jesse Byrd 50:41
There are three things on that list them that I’m fairly excited about.
One, we have a workshop that we launched a year ago this month, last October, where we take a group of kids, typically fourth and fifth graders, and we take them through the process of creating a real children’s picture book. We as a collective, write one book. Then it is matched with a professional writer and illustrator to flesh out whatever’s left after we finish our workshop. And then we produce a market grade ready book.
So the idea is that this is going to look like any other professionally published book on the bookshelf. what’s so cool about this fun, the kids get their names, they get publishing credits, the bulk of the proceeds go back to the hosting school or organization that sort of sponsored the workshop.
So they can use it for supplies or field trips or infrastructure, whatever they feel they need help with their school, they get a big book sale royalty to actually do so.
So I’m super proud of that program. We partnered with folks like Pixar on that. And they helped us with a few of the workshops or one of the workshops. And I’m so super proud of that program still going strong.
Working with PayPal right now, we’re recreating a children’s book about innovation. So this is the first time I’ve done it with adults. And that’s a lot of fun. So that’s one number two.
Our newest release is called “Bunso Meets a Mumu,” and it explores Filipino mythology through humor, action, and heart. The author-illustrator of that series is Filipino American. It’s just been released and it’s one of the funniest children’s book series that I’ve ever read. I’m so proud to have been able to acquire it.
Doris Nagel 52:24
The title alone sounds hilarious.
Jesse Byrd 52:29
A mumu is essentially the Filipino Boogey Man. It’s what parents use to get their kids into doing what they want them to do, like eat your vegetables, or go to bed on time or put down.
They say, “Stop drawing on the walls, or else the mumu will get you.” So things like that. So Boon has an encounter with the mumu and finds out that the mumu isn’t quite how his parents and family had painted it. And it’s really fun. So we’re super, super proud of that.
And then the third thing that I’ll mention is working with a lead characters called Black Santa. And it just it it’s such a fun character, such a fun universe. It presents an alternative and different perspective to ethnicity of this sort of heralded holiday character, and what that might look like.
And we also have a picture book coming out with Black Santa and his partner CC. That comes out in about a month.
Doris Nagel 53:33
I love it. Because when you think of all these so-called traditional stories and fairy tales, there aren’t many marginalized characters in there, unfortunately. So it’s good that there are people out there doing a different take on some of them.
Jesse Byrd 53:57
For sure. I mean, to be reimagined, to be expanding, and just to make these things more inclusive. Absolutely. There’s so many different walks of life on the planet. And I think it’s important to make sure they feel seen and heard and respectfully reflected.
Doris Nagel 54:16
Looking back on your journey as an entrepreneur, what advice would you give to other people starting out?
Jesse Byrd 54:31
I think we are living in such an amazing time to be an entrepreneur because of all the self-teaching that can happen. You can initiate your own learning curve, you can decide you’re curious about something and then you can begin without anybody else helping you or pushing you down that path to start.
You can find podcasts if you want to learn about finance and accounting or business. [There, you’ll find] some of the some of the best minds. The most respected minds are just giving away their wisdom, giving away their tried and true methods. There are books available everywhere, there are articles, you know, there’s YouTube, right?
Doris Nagel 55:13
There’s a YouTube video for pretty much everything, I think. I see ones that I can’t even believe are out there!
Jesse Byrd 55:19
Yes, there’s so many. And so I think the biggest chunk of advice that I’ve learned personally that I really value is own your learning curve. Be proactive about it if there’s something you’re curious about, if you want to get better at something on your learning curve.
Number two is just value team. If you want to grow big, if you want to be sustainable, you’re going to need some sort of help at some point. Really lean into identifying what it is maybe you either don’t want to do, or you’re not the best person to do and value others in their experience and what they have to offer.
But be proactive about both of those things, finding help, and learning up yourself about the things that can help make you a better artist, and a better businessperson.
Doris Nagel 56:11
Share with people how to get in touch with you if they’re interested maybe in finding more about the books you’ve published, or your own books or maybe just chatting with you about your journey. Or maybe they’re an author and they are an illustrator, and they’d like you to take a look at some of their work, what’s the best way for them to get in touch and find out more?
Jesse Byrd 56:49
The best way to get in touch honestly is via Instagram. Our company is there at Jessebcreative. Also our website is Jessebcreative.com, if you want to check out any of our books. We are a black owned children’s book publisher, focusing largely on children’s picture books. And we reflect marginalized communities in our work, and our work is made by marginalized communities.
So we’re having a great time. It’s a lot of fun. And there’s so many great stories coming down the pipeline from just awesome creators, we’re finally getting a chance.
Doris Nagel 57:28
I love your enthusiasm. I was smiling almost the whole time during our chat. And so I thank you for that.
Jesse Byrd 57:38
Thank you This is this has been great.
Doris Nagel 57:41
Thank you so much for your time, Jesse and for being on the show this week.
Jesse Byrd 57:47
Likewise for your time as well. Thank you for having me.
Doris Nagel 57:50
A big thank you as well to all of my listeners. You’re the reason I do this.
You can find more helpful information and resources for entrepreneurs on my consulting website, which is globalocityservices.com.
And I also have a new website for the radio show itself, thesavvyentrepreneur.org, where you’ll find their blogs, tools, podcasts, and all sorts of other resources that are free.
My door is always open, and I’d love to hear from you. If you have comments, questions, suggestions, or just want to shoot the breeze, email me at dnagel@thesavvyentrepreneur.org. You’ll always get a response back from me.
Be sure to join me again next Saturday at 11am Central noon Eastern. But until then, I’m Doris Nagel, wishing you happy entrepreneuring!
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