Meridth Hammer tried hard to be a good employee, but when she was laid off during the 2007 crash, she ultimately decided it was time to open her own law firm. She set up the Hammer Legal Group in Indianoplis, and was successful for several years.
Then she got an offer she couldn’t refuse at the Cook County Clerk’s Office, but eventually knew she wanted to get back to running her own solo practice law firm, so she started the firm back up from scratch in Chicago. Her practice focuses on wills, trusts, probate, and real estate as a solo law practice.
Along the way, she learned a lot — about setting up and maintaining a business, about what works and what doesn’t, about real estate shenanigans, and most importantly, about herself.
She candidly shares with The Savvy Entrepreneur some of the challenges along the way, with humility, humor, and absolutely a “can-do” attitude.
What follows is a transcript of our chat. But if you’d prefer to listen to the original radio show on-demand, click here.
Doris Nagel 0:42
Good morning all you entrepreneurs and small businesspeople out there! You’re listening to The Savvy Entrepreneur show.
I’m Doris Nagel, your host for the next hour.
The show has two goals. First to share helpful information and resources. If I can help just one of you entrepreneurs out there to not make some of the many mistakes I’ve made myself, or that I’ve seen clients or friends make, then I’ve been successful.
The second goal is to inspire. I don’t know about you, but I found that being an entrepreneur is often confusing, sometimes lonely. You have no idea if you’re on the right track, or sometimes where to turn for good advice.
To help with both of those goals, I have guests every week on the show who are willing to share their stories and their advice.
This week’s guest is Meridth Hammer. She’s the founder and owner of the Hammer Legal Group, a solo law practice, and she joins me this week to share her journey as an entrepreneur.
Meridth, thanks so much for being with me today. Welcome to The Savvy Entrepreneur Show!
Meridth Hammer 1:52
Thank you so much, Doris. I appreciate being here. Looking forward to speaking with you today.
Doris Nagel 1:57
I am looking forward to it too, because you have such an interesting background. And I’ve only heard just a little piece of it. I can’t wait to hear more. First though, tell the listeners just a little bit about who you are, and how the Hammer Legal Group came to be.
Meridth Hammer 2:16
As you know, I am an attorney. I’ve been an attorney for over 20 years, even though it seems just like yesterday I started.
I was born and raised by two amazing people — my parents — in Indianapolis, Indiana. So I’m a Midwestern girl.
I currently live in Chicago in Illinois. Single, no children. But I love dogs. I love animals — dogs in particular. So I have my one. I had three.
Doris Nagel
Oh my goodness. I have two, and sometimes they drive me crazy. What breed are they?
Meridth Hammer
Well, I did have three, but two of them passed away in the last couple years.
But I had them for years and years. Over 13 years, and they had the best life ever. They were happy dogs. I like big dogs – I had two pit mixes and a bullmastiffs. And I used to walk all three of them, you know. People on the street would look at me and say, “Dang, you know how to command!”
Doris Nagel
Mush! Hook them up to the sled in the wintertime, right?
Meridth Hammer
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But I love animals. And I’m partial to dogs. In fact, I just came back from our morning walk.
Doris Nagel 3:48
You and I share that! I love my two little pooches — my the world revolves around them. They think they’re part human, I’m pretty sure.
Anyway, so you were raised in Indianapolis, but you’re here in Chicago and your firm is here. Talk about how that happened.
Meridth Hammer 4:07
You know, I have moved a couple of times. I was raised in Indiana. But I think I always wanted to go out and explore the world.
I spent my undergraduate years at Purdue, but I did my summer interns in California. I have family there.
And then I kind of always thought I wanted to explore the world. Just, you know, take the opportunity to have experiences and have adventures. So after undergrad, I did move back and then went to law school in Indianapolis while working full time.
Doris Nagel
Good for you!
Meridth Hammer
It required a strong work ethic, and that definitely came from my parents, and was totally worth it.
And then I moved to the District of Columbia after law school, and lived there for a couple of years. I loved it, but then I moved back when my mom became ill, about 20 years ago. She was diagnosed with leukemia, and the doctors told us she’s not going to live more than 18 or 19 months.
So I said, “Well, you know, it’s going to be the best time of her life, so I’m moving back to care for my mom, and to help my dad.” I definitely did not regret that move to come back and help mom.
Although she did not die when they predicted. She was super strong person a strong woman, and she got better, even went back to work. But I was there in Indianapolis after that for a little while, because it took her some time to heal, and to get herself together. So I stayed there, helping her and my dad for a while.
But you know me — ultimately, I wanted another adventure. A friend of a friend knew Dorothy Brown Cook, who was the clerk of the circuit cour, in Cook County. And I have family in Chicago. So I got introduced to her several years ago, and she asked me to come and work for.
So I went on another adventure! And then I helped her when she ran for mayor. I became her campaign manager, and just really fell in love with politics. And she inspired me as well — another strong woman. My aunt also inspired me — she was the first African- American Chief of Police of the San Diego Police Department. And she also had a lot to do with just helping me to figure out what I wanted to do when I grew up.
Doris Nagel 7:15
You know, Meridth, one of the questions I had planned to ask you later on was where you find inspiration. But I think it’s pretty obvious where you find a lot of your inspiration. You clearly come from a family and an extended circle of strong women who support each other. And that is something that a lot of us long for.
Meridth Hammer 7:45
That is definitely true. I have been lucky in life. I always say that I am well-loved.
I’m getting a little emotional, just thinking about these super-strong women. You know, my mom passed away a couple years ago, and I had just never really thought about it a lot.
Doris Nagel 8:08
Think about how hard it is for us as women today. And, for you, it’s doubly hard as a woman of color. But imagine for those trailblazers, like your mom and your aunt and other women of that generation how hard it must have been. It was unusual for women to be strong like that then. However hard it is for us today, they’ve made it a little less hard for the us women today, honestly.
Meridth Hammer 8:37
Absolutely. I think they definitely paved the way. Like you said, my mom actually was the first entrepreneur that I knew. She and I both believe that is where I got my entrepreneurial spirit from — from her.
She and my aunt were born and raised in a little small town called Janesville, North Carolina. So, it was definitely tough growing up. It was a hard life, you know. And Clerk Brown, also a woman from a certain generation, born in a small town in Louisiana. She had seven or eight siblings, all of whom who went on to college.
They were all super strong, super at overcoming the obstacles, and just fighters.
So, I definitely come from a family and other people that have given me an extended support group. They are strong, strong people, and strong women in particular.
And, you know, I was going to talk about that. I think that’s really helped me to want to become an entrepreneur. It’s given me not only the inspiration, but the support, just having these women to go back to, and telling you, “You can do this.”
Doris Nagel 9:59
I think it’s important to have people in your life telling you, “You can do this, Meridth.” People telling you when it gets tough to keep going when maybe sometimes you want to give up.
You mentioned you were working for the Clerk of the Court in Cook County, but now you have your own law firm, the Hammer Legal Group. How did that come about?
Meridth Hammer 10:24
I started the Hammer Legal Group actually in 2008, I think. I started it in Indianapolis, after the stock market crashed. I got laid off, like a lot of people did then. I saw it coming. Maybe the next day after the crash, I received a call and was told I was going to be let go.
Doris Nagel
You were “impacted, as the human resources people say. Like somehow you were hit by a bus or something, right?
Meridth Hammer 11:01
Right. And it definitely impacted me greatly. I scrambled. I was frantic and scrambled. I really worked at looking for work for several months, and nothing came about. I was told at every juncture, “Honestly, you’re overqualified.” And I probably was, you know, but I was laid off and I needed work.
And then I just came up with an idea: “Well, what if, instead of me going and begging someone for a job, I start my own business and make my own way?”
And so I honestly, I think it may have been my mom’s entrepreneurial spirit and Inspiration that just came to me. I started looking for what we call RFPs — requests for proposals. And I had done those kinds of responses to those kinds of RFPs before, in my former gigs. I call it now a “gig,” like all jobs.
Doris Nagel 12:06
Anymore, I think that’s about right.
There’s a reason that people’s interest in entrepreneurship these days is at a historical high. Honestly, it seems like life is a series of gigs these days. You can call yourself an employee or an entrepreneur, or whatever you like, but whatever that is, you need to embrace this whole idea of You Inc. — that you’re in charge of your own career and your own ship.
Meridth Hammer 12:32
I mean, when they called me to tell me I was laid, I was like, “What is this stuff?” It was a job, but it wasn’t solid, either, right? My parents had come from a generation where, you know, you get your job. And you may only get one or two jobs for your entire life.
But looking back, thank God, that wasn’t the case for me. So the crash came and it was over. And I had to figure it out. And so I did. I responded to an RFP that was put out by the by the Indian Housing and Community Development Authority. And I always say I started with 12 pieces of blank paper. I responded to the RFP, and I was awarded a half million dollar contract. So that wasn’t a lot, but…
Doris Nagel
No, but that’s not a bad place to start a solo law practice!
Meridth Hammer 13:30
Right. So that’s how I started. And it was just me. Later, I decided to bring on a friend of mine who is one of the smartest people I know. Her name was Heather Gaddy. She was also a lawyer. I grew up with Heather and I had moved to DC when I moved to DC, she was there and then we both ultimately moved back[to Indiana].
So long story short, we started the firm. We were doing what is called compliance monitoring for the housing authority. We had flexible schedules. She had a child at the time, so it really worked for us. We had to do little travel around the state to various Community Development Corporations, and we met a lot of people that we still stay in touch with today.
That was 13-14 years ago, but I think we did a great job. We had the flexibility, we made some money, and that’s how the Hammer Legal Group got started.
It began with that project, that contract with the Indian Housing Authority. It was a great, great time. We had flexibility, we made money, and we were able to hire a couple more people, and they extended the contract, I took a lot of joy and pride in being able to hire others, and to create jobs for other people.
Doris Nagel 15:02
But, after doing that for a while, then you went to become an employee again, right?
Meridth Hammer
They talked me into it! [Laughing]
Doris Nagel
And now, you’re back practicing again, right?
Meridth Hammer
Yeah.
Doris Nagel 15:13
So you’ve had a great opportunity to see all the pros and cons of being an employee versus running your own business.
You know, I belong to SCORE, which is part of the SBA. I used to be a mentor there, but now, I’m a subject matter expert for them.
But through SCORE, I talk to a lot of people who either have been let go, or they want to quit their jobs. But I don’t know if many of them fully understand the difference — having worked in a company or an organization for a long time– versus setting up their own business.
You’ve had a chance to be the entrepreneur, be an employee now, but go back to being an entrepreneur. So help those people out. Tell them your perception of what some of the biggest differences are, and things that people should think about. If they’ve been working in an organization for a long time, what they need to prepare themselves for, if they decide they want to take the plunge and start their own business.
Meridth Hammer 16:24
Yeah, it is challenging. I think that it may have been “easier” – I put that in quotes because on the one hand, it may have been easier. But on the other hand, maybe not…
Doris Nagel
Meridth, you are definitely a lawyer. We gotta tie one of your hands behind your back! [Laughing]
Meridth Hammer
I know, right? And I’m literally going back and forth with my hands in the air right now!
Okay, so I thought about this before, but I don’t have children. So I could see how so it was easier for me. It was easier for me just throw caution to the wind and say, “Okay, I’ll figure it out.”
Doris Nagel
You only had yourself to worry about.
Meridth Hammer 17:05
Right, myself and my dogs. Plus, I had parents – you know, they’re never gonna let me not eat, right?
But on the other hand, if I were married, then it may, it may be a little easier to, but maybe not. Maybe my significant other may not wanted me to just throw caution to the wind. I mean, it depends. It’s always a balance.
But, there are some things to consider if you’re employed. Yes, the job is there, but maybe it’s not as stable as you think, as we just talked about. But, even so, there likely is going to be some stability for a certain amount of time.
Doris Nagel 17:59
There’s certainly more stability. I think one of the biggest shocks for me when I left corporate America was not getting that paycheck. Even if you don’t know if the job is going to be there for the next five years, you probably don’t worry as much about that on a daily basis, because you get that paycheck and it comes every two weeks, so you can pay your mortgage or your car loan, or whatever.
But suddenly being an entrepreneur and having all these expenses when I started was eye-opening. There are things that are needed to get set up and organized. Things like, “Oh, I need a website now?” Well, you know, if you’re working for an organization, they have an IT department to take care of that.
When people ask me what I miss about corporate America, I tell them, “Yeah, I miss the IT department!”
Meridth Hammer 18:55
Well, that’s true for a lot of people.
I guess, I wouldn’t say that for me, because I do have an undergraduate degree in software development. So that’s lucky there.
But I could see though, how you could say that you would miss the IT department. They do a lot, you know. If something breaks down, you just call IT, and they come and fix it. So I’ve done that, and I’ll continue to do it. So I don’t necessarily have that.
But when you’re out on your own as an entrepreneur, there’s certainly more stability. I know, for me, it was great to be able to rely on that paycheck every couple of weeks. But that was kind of it for me. I always now that I don’t make a good employee anymore.
Doris Nagel 19:50
For me, another thing — and this goes to the self discipline you need to have as an entrepreneur. It was always comforting to me when there was too much work to do, or not enough, to be able to go to my boss and say, “I need help here. I have too much work.” Or, “Hey, things are kind of slow. Is there anything I can help out with?”
As an entrepreneur, you are the boss – you have to boss yourself, and you have to figure out how to deal with those tidal waves that may come with clients that suddenly need stuff all of a sudden, if you’re a service business, like I was. You have to figure out how to be productive and not panic when the crickets are chirping.
Meridth Hammer 20:42
It is definitely a balancing act.
I think that for me, having been an employee, then being an entrepreneur, and then going back, I think I didn’t really make the best employee, because I always kind of want to be in charge after that, you know? “Do this, do that, let’s change this, let’s make these changes.” And my boss was like, “What are you doing??
I do think, though, that I was able to really do well, collaborating with other people. Not really pushing people around, but I have a strong work ethic, and I’m a workaholic, I think. So. I’m always finding something to do. I don’t seem to have downtime.
As an attorney, I only practice in certain areas, but people call me for everything and anything, right?
Doris Nagel
I’m sure that’s true. Just like doctors are always getting people who ask them, “Hey, what’s this thing on my skin?” And the doctor has to tell them, “I’m sorry, I’m a brain surgeon. I’m not qualified to give you any opinion on that.”
Meridth Hammer 21:54
That’s why I only practice law on the civil side, doing probate in real estate and contract disputes. I do wills trust and estate planning. But I don’t do, and have never done, any criminal work.
But people call me anyways. And then I have this kind of unique thing where my last name is Hammer, so I set up the Hammer Legal Group. But there’s an attorney out there who calls himself The Hammer. That’s not his last name is not him, but he’s a personal injury attorney that wants to sound tough. And he has billboards up and down I-65 and on the way to Kentucky.
So about every two days, somebody calls me thinking I’m The Hammer. They call me and say, “Hey, Hammer, I need your help. I just in a car wreck or I had an accident. A truck sideswiped me, or I fell down, whatever.”
I tried for a while to keep up and call people back or text them, telling them I’m not this person. And try to refer them to somebody who can actually help them. But lately, it’s just gotten completely out of control!
Doris Nagel
You restarted your firm up again, but now you’re in Chicago not Indianapolis. So how are you finding your client base in Chicago?
Meridth Hammer 23:51
I think it’s two or three things.
First, the area I practice in, which is probate, it’s real estate and trust and estate planning, and those actually go together, along with contracts, disputes, you know, real estate and contracts and disputes — breach of contract, that kind of thing.
I started learning this area years ago, when my mom became ill. I set up her estate plan, her health care power of attorney, her financial power of attorney, because we needed to do that.
And so I stumbled through it. I didn’t have any other background in that area, but I stumbled through it for my mom. And, you know, I fought to help her get her disability early, because she wasn’t of age to get it, because she was sick. I had to fight for her, even to receive medical treatment in the hospital.
It was a lot. And she told me, “You need to do this kind of thing for other people.” And so I tell people that story, and then they will ask me for help. And people call me in crisis. “My mom is ill, what do I do?” And I got this –I just did it for my mom. Or people will say, “You know, I’m thinking what am I going to do when I pass away? And we will talk about a will.
And then naturally with that comes estate planning. And estates, you know, largely consist of real estate. And, having worked on the Indian Housing Authority project, I already had some connections with real estate, and buying and selling property, and then I bought my house. My broker was very, very helpful. He actually was the person who got who got me the office, down the hall from his office, to start my practice.
And so we would talk about the real estate that people had in their estates. And I started learning about real estate, and I loved it, I just really loved the whole thing.
And the thing about probate and real estate is that if you provide a good service, and you help people, which is the reason why I went to law school, after all, literally, I felt like if, you know, if I know the laws or understand the rules, I can help people who are traditionally underserved, I can help people who traditionally don’tt have the information they need to draft a will or to go get their their mom’s property when she pulled out of the tax sale. They just don’t know.
So I just thought, you know, hey, if I can help them, then that’s what I want to do.
Doris Nagel
Well, it’s an area where, frankly, everybody needs it eventually, whether they realize it or not.
It’s kind of a morbid question, but has the estate and will and probate area has picked up because of COVID? Maybe either because people have had more time to think about things and get their home and affairs in order, or maybe they’re they’ve seen a loved one suddenly passed away?
Meridth Hammer 27:14
I actually was thinking about that yesterday, and it has definitely picked up. Probate cases for sure are backed up now in in probate court in Cook County. They kind of always have been, but it’s worse now. Which poses a lot of problems for a lot of different people and reasons.
But yes, people are definitely thinking about it more. They’re thinking about an estate plan more. They realize they need a healthcare power of attorney, so that if you’re in a coma or incapacitated, someone can act on your behalf.
So it definitely has picked up and then, you know, like I said with the practice, a lot of times, for me and for people who practice in this area, things just happen.
For example, I ran into my old teacher like three or four years ago. I was in Indianapolis at the bank, and I saw my teacher from my old school. And I said, “Hey ,Miss Wright, what are you doing here?” We got into a conversation, and I told her I was a lawyer. She says, “Do you do anything related to probate?”
Why, yes, I do! She actually had an attorney, but then switched to me at some point. And it worked out. And so, 4 years ago, I helped her with her dad’s will and probate for his will and his estate. But not only that. She has seven siblings.
Sometimes probate can take a long time. I think it took us several months to get through that estate. But during that time, her sister that was became ill. And so once we finished up her dad’s estate, then they asked me about helping her sister, whom I knew, because she was one of the executors on the dad’s estate. So I helped her set things up. Then she got she got sicker and sicker, and after about a year she passed away. So then I did her estate. And she has six more siblings who are all of a certain age.
Doris Nagel
And I’m sure they have also have friends and other family….
Meridth Hammer 29:25
Yes, a lot of business in this type of practice, it’s word of mouth. I also do tax surplus sale claims. So I help people there and that again is through word of mouth. I help people. So it was very easy. When I left the clerk’s office to go back to private practice, I decided I was just going to continue helping people.
Doris Nagel
What a great story.
I know you’ve also faced some challenges along the way. One of them you already shared with me about family responsibilities, but I’m sure there have been others that that you faced, and I think it be inspirational for my listeners to hear maybe how you dealt with some of those challenges.
Meridth Hammer 30:13
You’re right. I think especially being you know, a woman in business, a woman in the real estate world, it has been challenging, you know, dealing with people who just take advantage of you. Or they try to bully you.
One of my projects was 95,000, which I started several years ago, because I wanted to help people, I wanted to create reasonable, affordable homes, and help serve people who are traditionally underserved. I knew something about real estate, I knew something about buying land, or buying lots and quieting title on those lots, and pulling people together to do that.
Doris Nagel
But you’re an attorney. People make lawyer jokes, but at the end of the day, I think, at some level, people think, “Wow, attorneys know how to protect themselves and know how to figure out the system.” Right? So if you have challenges…
Meridth Hammer 31:26
Right. And I thought the same thing. So I was quite offended, and appalled when I ran into this. I think in any business or any field, you just have people who are trying to be sneaky, or just taking advantage of a situation. And so, for me, it was the contractors.
And what I’m told is that this isn’t unusual. Contractors just get in a bind. They’re trying to rob Peter to pay Paul. I think I’m making excuses for them, I don’t know, but for me, there are very few people, first of all, who look like me, black women, who are builders — who literally do what I was doing and still do, which is buying property building on and selling it at a reasonable price. So, I think the contractors just were greedy, wanting to make money, not doing a good job, but wanting to still get paid. And just leaving me in the lurch.
I don’t know how to do anything related to contractor work. I don’t even know how to really use a hammer, I always jokingly say, and I don’t want to. So I can’t fix the project and finish it.
So I think that was the biggest disappointment for me was just having to deal with just some unsavory people who took advantage. I went through two or three different cycles of contractors.
Ultimately, though, I found a super guy who is my contractor builder now. He’s really a partner in with me on what I’m doing within that particular on that particular project. So that, for me has just been a challenge, dealing with people who try to take advantage or bully me.
I will say,tho, that I even get that in my legal practice.
Doris Nagel
I think most service providers have been bitten at some point by a client that she thought was good for the money, or maybe they were good for a long time or quite a while, and then suddenly, they don’t pay, and it’s just painful.
Meridth Hammer 33:46
Yeah. And I’m surprised at opposing counsel. I’m always surprised when opposing counsel is just unprofessional. I don’t know why that surprises me. And maybe I’m talking about it now, because I’m going through yet another situation and negotiation.
But you were asking me about the challenges I faced, and those are the challenges.
To create those other streams has been super helpful for me, so, I don’t worry so much about money anymore.
But certainly in the beginning, you know, it was a challenge, and very, very stressful. Oh yes. So just having stable finances [is great].
As you said, being an entrepreneur, especially being a female entrepreneur. Honestly, I don’t know if I faced more challenges than a man. I’m not sure. I know they go through their own troubles. But certainly I’m not a man.
Doris Nagel
Reading between the lines, you certainly have a can-do kind of mentality. And I think you need that as an entrepreneur.
Because frankly, none of us are good at everything we need to do. That may be things like marketing, or administrative stuff, or whatever.
Even with legal issues, you don’t know everything, right? So you have to either find the answer yourself, or tell people you’re not qualified to do it, or find somebody else who can help you do it.
But it in every respect, you need to be resourceful and be able to just find answers and not be intimidated by the fact that you don’t know everything. Be confident you’ll figure it out or find somebody who can help.
Meridth Hammer 36:04
Absolutely. I have a really good friend I was telling you about earlier, who is he is a computer science and computer security expert. And so I’ve always had him and could lean on him.
And the thing that he really helped me to understand is that, you know, we can try to be resourceful, ask people, definitely try to figure out. But if we don’t know, we say we don’t know.
I’m not going to take on a criminal law case right now. It’s not something I’m going to do, because it’s just over my head. I may pass as a criminal client off to my one of my colleagues, but I know if I try to do it, I might get hurt, and I might hurt the person.
That’s one of the things I learned early on is to not take on work that I just really have no idea how to do. I want to help people, I want to really help them, not just take some money from them. And so if it’s something that I don’t think I can do – even if it’s a case I think I can win, I’m going to tell them, and I just won’t take on take on that client.
At the same time, I do take on clients that I know I will need to fight for them. And then like you said, even being resourceful, I’m not going to know everything.
I have to realize that I’m not going to know the entire universe. Even if I know how to do the research and analyze a particular issue, and provide the feedback or go to court or go to a particular judge, there are some things I just won’t do if it’s just over my head too much, because I’m gonna end up hurting myself and my client.
Doris Nagel
Are there certain kinds of clients that you’ve steered away from? I know you’ve said from a subject matter perspective, you have. But, in my experience in the service business, there are certain kinds of people that just aren’t worth the trouble. Has that been your experience, too?
Meridth Hammer 38:10
You know, I really try to work with people. Even if they don’t have the finances, I try to talk to them about doing some sort of installment plan.
In the beginning, I don’t know why, but I really did have to figure out how to ask for money.
For a long time maybe I felt guilty. I just felt weird about taking people’s money for my services.
Doris Nagel
I have a feeling that’s a limitation that many women deal with.
Maybe it’s a bit of the imposter syndrome. Studies consistently show women are not nearly as good as men — not even remotely close — at applying for jobs they’re not qualified for but still telling the hiring manager with a straight face they’re the best candidate for the job. Or asking for promotions and raises. We’re just not as good as men about that.
Meridth Hammer 39:15
Yes. For me, it took a long time to get comfortable with that. It’s only recently really, that I’ve accepted that, Okay, I’m worth this and more.
I think in the past I would take on clients who didn’t value my services and wouldn’t pay, and that would get me into trouble sometimes, because then I would have to take on two or three more clients or work twice as hard to make up for that client. Honestly, that’s what I’ve done.
Like you said, I don’t take on clients in certain subject matters. But mostly those clients just don’t come to me anymore. I don’t have to say, “Oh, I don’t do that” because they just don’t come to me.
Recently, I’ve just been inundated with work, and clients. And so I have had to refer some clients out to other attorneys. But I typically take, everybody. I’m trying to think back to whether there was a client I just didn’t take, but I think more has to do with the area of law where I just don’t have any experience.
Doris Nagel
You’re actually a candidate right now for a judicial position in Cook County. Talk a little bit about that, and how you’re juggling that with managing your business.
Meridth Hammer
Oh, I’m a coward.
Doris Nagel
So you’re trying to do two jobs, basically?
Meridth Hammer 41:04
Yes, I’m trying to do two jobs. You know, I want to win, and want to pull out all the stops. And so I’m using all my resources to run for judge, I’m very proud to say that I have the opportunity to run for judge in Cook County, Illinois. I’m so excited I feel like I want to cry all the time!
It’s just been a dream of mine, ever since I went to law school.
Doris Nagel
Congratulations! I think you’d make a great judge.
Meridth Hammer 41:37
Thank you so much! I think so too. I love people. I mean, I truly I love people. I love helping people.
And I think being on the other side of the bench, having worked as an attorney for 20 years and appearing before judges [is great preparation]. I’m fair, I’m honest and have integrity. And I’ve really just worked very hard. I just have an understanding and compassionate about people and what they’ve gone through.
So I have a lot to offer, I think, too. Especially in regards to my computer science background, because believe it or not, the legal field is like the last frontier. Moving into technology, the wheel just doesn’t [move very quickly]. The clerk’s office of the circuit court here in Cook County is the biggest court system — well, maybe second largest to the LA court system in the country.
But it’s Just now just now rolling out a case management system just now that was purely on paper for years and years. Paper, can you believe it? You know, these things when you take the order to court here, you have to give the judge the order, and you have to give them all the carbon copies of the paper so that when they stamp it, you can make a copy.
in Marion County, Indiana, there’s a computer system. I don’t take paper to court any longer in the county. So right now, Cook County [courts] are trying to move in that direction. And recently with COVID, we just started allowing hearings via Zoom.
That sounds like a small thing. But truly it has created a situation where I can literally practice both here and in Indiana. And I do! And for the litigants, people who used to have to have to take off work or hire a babysitter, just to come to court for a 15 minute court call, being able to have that on Zoom is powerful.
Doris Nagel
What a concept, right?
Meridth Hammer 43:40
I’m making a push to keep this going even after COVID. I call it an access to justice issue. Because instead of having somebody miss a court hearing because they can’t take off work, put them on a Zoom call in the court room, have the hearing, and let them move on with their day.
A lot of times, it’s a traffic case, and you have to come to court for a traffic case. And being you miss out on work. But if you get appear on Zoom, you can appear in the traffic case, still keep your license, so you can get back and forth to work. You know, I think it makes it makes a lot of sense.
So one of the things I want to do is incorporate, you know, some of, you know, the my ideas and the skills and the tools that I have learned and been able to refine in technology in the court system here to make it to make it better, to provide greater access to justice.
[In my campaign], I’m going to talk a lot about algorithms to help speed things up. If we used those, we could change a lot around, you know. We can move up probate court hearings quicker, and get people into court faster, you know, so that they’re not losing their homes, you know, when their parents die, or mom dies or Grandma dies, and you’re waiting to have a hearing [in probate court} but the property is going to the tax sale, and you lose the family home before you can get there.
Doris Nagel
I wish you every success with your candidacy. What are your plans with your law practice if you win?
Meridth Hammer
I have some time before the elections in June 2022. Once I win in June…
Doris Nagel
I like your positive thinking!
Meridth Hammer 45:32
Well, I won’t be able to take the bench until December 7 of 2022. So, I have about a year. My goal is to have set up an infrastructure where I can weave in several colleagues I have who do this kind of work.
And they’re supportive. We’ve just been talking about helping my clients out and just trying to set up infrastructure for people to take this over, I can still do some educational stuff and educate people, but [once I’m on the bench], in no way can I practice law.
So it’ll be a shift, I think a good one for everyone. Once I win, I’m just gonna close out my practice, to be honest with you. But I’ll definitely refer my clients to some good people.
Doris Nagel 46:28
What I love about what you just said is that you’re able to view your business as something separate from you.
I think a common mistake I’ve seen — and certainly that I’ve made — is that your business becomes your identity. And that’s when I think people sometimes make bad decisions, because they want to hold onto their baby, and they can’t separate their personal goals and what they want to achieve from the business itself.
And what you just said is that you’ve been very objective about it. Your business is important to you. And if for some reason you don’t win or something happens, you’re perfectly prepared to continue on and you’ll probably look for another adventure.
You’ve got a plan, a very objective plan.
Meridth Hammer
I was thinking about that, definitely, I will look for something else, You know, I’m living my life. I’m very passionate about living life to the fullest. So why stop at judge?
Doris Nagel
You’re probably not going to make the 2024 Presidential elections, but I wouldn’t count you out in 2028!
Meridth Hammer
I hear you! Thumbs up to that!
Doris Nagel 47:55
For those people who are thinking about starting a business, especially women thinking about starting a business, or people of color or entrepreneurs from other marginalized groups, what advice would you give to those people, as they’re starting their business? What would you have done differently? What mistakes would you tell them to avoid?
Meridth Hammer 48:29
You know, I’m a communicator. So I think it’s important for you to communicate with family, friends, and loved ones, about what you’re doing.
I think a lot of people, like my one friend, are just super quiet about it. Because they’re afraid that they’re gonna fail or whatever.
But I think so having a support system is really important. Because you may fail on the first one, but you want the support so that you can pick it right back up and keep going.
And that’s another thing: don’t be afraid to fail. You know, you can do all the research in the world and plan and plan and plan and you still may fail at it. But I think you should go for it. For sure. Don’t be afraid to fail.
So, really try to have a support system, a good support system. Don’t listen to the naysayers. Get them out of your way. You want to have any really exclusive group of people who are not going to tell you what you want to hear. But they’re not going to be the naysayers, either.
Doris Nagel
Yeah. And those naysayers are out there, at least in my experience, particularly if you don’t come from a family of entrepreneurs, or your circle isn’t a lot of entrepreneurs. There are a lot of people who are going to be like, oh, whoa, you know, you’re doing it alone. I didn’t have many supporters.
Meridth Hammer 50:00
Your supporters may be only one or two people. When I first started, my dad thought I was crazy. That wasn’t what they had planned for me. When I told them this is what I’m going to do, I’m going to be really busy. But then my mom was like, “When are you going to start it?” Because she had the entrepreneurial spirit. So she was great with it, but my dad, not so much. And nowadays, he just shakes his head, like I’m this crazy kid.
Doris Nagel
I’m sure he’s very proud of you. But I think that’s true of a lot of dads. You’re always going to be their little girl, and they want to try to protect you from the big bad world.
But unfortunately, there’s only so much they can do. So…
Meridth Hammer 50:50
So definitely go for it. Go for it, live out your dream. You know if that if you want to become an entrepreneur, just try. Just try it!
Doris Nagel
Meridth, you are you are an inspiration to me, and I hope to lots of my listeners.
If people are interested in your services, or maybe they want to just chat with you about being an entrepreneur, maybe they want to help you with your judicial campaign. What’s the best way for them to reach you?
Meridth Hammer
You can call or email me. My telephone number, yes, it’s the Indianapolis area code, is 317-446-8844. Or you can send me an email at Meridth@thehammerLegalGroup.com. I check both every single day.
Doris Nagel
Meredith, thanks so much for taking time to stop by and sharing your story and your infectiously optimistic and can do attitude. It’s an inspiration, and made me smile today! So thank you for that.
Meridth Hammer
Thank you, Doris. I really appreciate it. I enjoyed it so much, and I look forward to talking to you again in the future.
Doris Nagel 52:38
I look forward to that too. Thanks to all my listeners — you’re the reason I do this.
You can find more helpful information and resources on my consulting website which is globalocityservices.com, as well as my new radio show website. Yes, I finally taken the plunge! Go to thesavvyentrepreneur.org, where you’re find lots of tools, podcasts and other resources. And you’ll find more and more resources as I have a chance to populate the site.
My door is always open for comments, questions, suggestions, or just to shoot the breeze. Email me at dnagel@ thesavvyentrepreneur.org. I promise you’ll always get a response back from me.
Be sure to join me again next Saturday at 11am am Central noon Eastern. But until then, I’m Doris Nagel, wishing you happy entrepreneuri
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