Laura Barnard, CEO of BREAKTHRU Brands, joins The Savvy Entrepreneur show to talk about personal branding. She shares what personal branding is, how to tell if your brand is strong or weak, why a strong personal brand is so powerful, and tips for helping build a stronger brand.
Laura works with women to help them find their voice — their passion, their purpose. Then she helps them craft that into a powerful story and then shows them how to amplify that voice. And she helps them uncover hidden obstacles that stand in the way and how to power through them.
We chat about some of the things that hold women entrepreneurs back, including self-confidence and the imposter syndrome. And talk about some of the ways to overcome those fears and voices inside our heads.
Laura’s passion for what she does is clear from the first few minutes of our interview. She offers tons of tips and suggestions to help women entrepreneurs — all entrepreneurs, really — improve their personal branding. And to find and amplify their voice and make a bigger impact in whatever they’re doing.
Read a transcript of the interview below, or go here to listen to the show!
Doris Nagel 0:42
Good morning, all you entrepreneurs and small businesspeople out there!
You’re listening to The Savvy Entrepreneur Show.
I’m Doris Nagel, your host for the next hour.
The show has two goals: First, to share helpful information resources. If I can help just one of you entrepreneurs out there not to make some of the same mistakes that I’ve made, or that I’ve seen, some of my clients or friends make that I’ve been successful.
The second goal is to inspire. Because I think being an entrepreneur is confusing and often lonely. Sometimes you have no idea if you’re on the right track, or where to turn for good advice.
So every week, I have guests on the show who are willing to share their stories and advice. And this week’s guest is Laura Barnard. She’s the founder and owner of BREAKTHRU Brands. She joins me this week to talk about personal branding, and why it’s so important for startups and small businesses.
She knows what she’s talking about having been in the business of helping organizations with branding for quite a few years, including some stints at companies that spend a lot of money on branding and marketing, such as UBS, Wrigley, and others.
BREAKTHRUBrands, she says. is a branding agency empowering leaders to build more impactful personal and professional brands.
Laura, thanks so much for being with me today. Welcome to The Savvy Entrepreneur Show!
Laura Barnard 2:06
Thank you, Doris. I’m thrilled to be here with you.
Doris Nagel
I’m really delighted you’ve joined us. And I think the place to start is really to talk a little bit about your background and why you’re so passionate about branding? How did how did your journey lead you to where you are today?
Laura Barnard 2:23
I’ll start with a little trip down memory lane here a bit. My initial understanding of branding really didn’t occur until after I went to business school.
I grew up loving brands and not really knowing it. I had the chance to study psychology as an undergrad. And then after a few years in the working world, I pursued my MBA, where I chose to combine my love of psychology with a career path called marketing and another one called brand management.
My interest in psychology was about my passion for understanding people, and then kind of empathy for people. Why do people think, act and behave in the ways that they do?
I was very genuinely curious about that. And branding and marketing really is, to me, applying a lot of the same principles of psychology. Trying to understand consumers, what’s going to motivate them? What are their interests, desires, hopes, or fears? All those things. Because ultimately, branding is about connecting with the hearts and minds of consumers. So there’s a lot of psychology in it.
But for me, you know, pursuing my MBA at the University of Chicago really opened the door. And then you mentioned the Wrigley Company, which was my first foray as a professional. And that started a 15-year career path in brand management within the consumer goods industry.
Doris Nagel
It’s very interesting that you have a psychology background because I suspect effective branding is a lot about getting into people’s heads, and being a bit of an armchair shrink. Tell us a little bit about your business. What are some of the kinds of problems you help your clients with? And how do you help them?
Laura Barnard 4:17
I joke sometimes that I’m mostly a psychologist to our clients. Every project with our clients starts with a really deep discovery into the person, their motivations, their interests, their desires, their goals. I’m really trying to unearth within them their purpose, what they want to stand for –their vision for themselves.
And some of the barriers that get in the way of that unearthing — there are many — there’s no shortage, and then you sprinkle a little COVID in there has exacerbated things. But I think from a psychological standpoint, I think it boils down to two things: it’s clarity and confidence.
Sometimes people get a little bit unclear. And I think it’s at the, at the top of the show you mentioned, sometimes for entrepreneurs, it can be confusing, lonely, questioning in mind, they’re on the right track. So that is kind of a combination of a lack of clarity.
And sometimes, especially with I find with being a female entrepreneur myself, there is often an issue of confidence. And you’ll hear words thrown around like the imposter syndrome, or just insecure and scared to be vulnerable.
I think it boils down to solving the ultimate problem of providing clients with clarity on their purpose, clarity on a path to take to activate their brands in a meaningful way. And then the confidence to go out there and speak up and speak out for what they believe in.
Doris Nagel
Yes. Just thinking back on my own little journey, it’s one of those things that sounds super easy to do. And yet, it’s really hard, because we are all full of these voices in our heads telling us what we’re supposed to do, or what we’re supposed to look like, or things that we’re supposed to do.
And it is hard to get some of that out of your head — at least I’ve found it difficult.
So what is a brand, exactly? People think intuitively of Nike or Coke or something like that as a brand. But what’s a brand, really?
Laura Barnard 6:31
Great question. And I spend a lot of time talking about this topic. I teach on this topic at the college level. And I try to simplify it for any audience, whether it’s a college student or a senior executive across the spectrum. In a word, a brand is a promise.
Another way to understand a brand is that it really exists in the in the minds of the consumer. So there’s a promise that a brand product or service makes to the consumer, and only what the consumer experiences, kind of the perception is the reality, is the only thing that matters.
So brand perception is really something that exists in the mind of the consumer. And branding, really, is a battle for the mind.
You mentioned Nike and Apple, and there are other very high awareness brands. People often associate the logo with a brand, but a brand is really much more than that.
It’s more the emotional connection: when you see that trademark or that brand mark on a product, it’s shortcut signaling to you a promise of something. And there’s often as many emotional benefits to the thing as there are functional benefits.
So it’s really in a word of promise and a word of perception, but it’s really that shortcut for the consumer to know, “Hey, this is what I’m going to get if I buy this or consume this.”
So it’s a bit of a shortcut.
Doris Nagel
Businesses often need to pivot. That was especially true during the pandemic, but just generally, our world is changing so fast. And certainly that’s true for startup businesses. Sometimes the path you started down is not where you need to go. Or the clients that you thought were your targets when you launched your product are not quite your targets anymore.
I’m thinking of brands that have destroyed themselves or damaged their brand when they pivot but then didn’t live up to the brand.
One that jumps to my mind, probably because it’s breakfast time and I’m still hungry, is Krispy Kreme. They had this enormous popularity with their hot, fresh doughnuts. But then they started selling them in grocery stores, and they were they were no longer fresh or hot. And I think that that pivot really harmed their brand.
Laura Barnard 9:01
Absolutely. I think that’s a great example. And I suddenly am craving donuts as well!
Krispy Kreme succeeded in a pretty crowded space – there’s tens of thousands of Dunkin Donuts and Starbucks and even Mom and Pop donut shops. So, Krispy Kreme had a kind of breakthrough. They stood out, they did something that was different, and they had a very specific, unique selling proposition.
It was a high sensory experience and it was a high quality product and it definitely tapped into the hedonic part of our brain — deep in our brain, that sweet, that salty, that crisp and warm texture. That was the offering.
But if you deviate from that, like you mentioned, by throwing those doughnuts into boxes, and they sit cold for a couple days on a grocery shelf, that promise is no longer fulfilled, right?
Doris Nagel
That was a really bad decision for their brand, right?
Laura Barnard 10:02
Right. Again, the best consumer brands are built with a really, really deep understanding of the consumer — back to the psychology of that eating experience. They maybe forgot who their consumer really was.
Doris Nagel
And that happens to us small businesspeople too. I’m thinking back to my own journey –not that I had this powerful brand or anything – but I think I’m not alone as a consultant, where you say, “This is my value proposition. These are the clients I want to help. This is why I want to do it.”
And then somebody comes to you and says, “You know, I really could use you to help me with this.” And you know it’s not your target client or the type of work you want to do. But, you need to make your mortgage payment, you know…. And then you’re in the middle of the project, and you’re thinking, “Why am I doing this project? This is not the kind of client I want to help. This is not the kind of work I want to be doing.”
So I think that branding is not one of those things where you think, “Oh, I’ll come up with my logo and colors, and I’ve got my brand.” I think the story I just shared, and the story of Krispy Kreme, and there are lots of others out there, means that your brand is something you need to be mindful about all the time, right?
Laura Barnard 11:19
Absolutely. It’s never a one and done exercise.
Think about brands that have stood the test of time. The brand example that I often use is Coca Cola.
Coca Cola has been around since the 1800s. And in the definite trend of better for you, wellness, Coca Cola has had to reinvent it. I think the point is that all brands have to evolve.
However, there are some very key things that that stay true and stay consistent. The Coca Cola red, there’s this very specific color of red that is owned by Coca Cola. It’s a distinctive brand asset. As is the use of that asset in the hand script font of the Coca Cola logo.
Those allow you to see this picture in your mind — you see a Coca Cola truck today drive by, or you’re overseas and you see a billboard, or you see a digital ad, and a lot of the same distinctive brand assets are still there and are immediately recognizable.
However, to survive [the Coca Cola brand] has had to evolve to stay relevant with consumers. They can’t just say, “Well, we offer one flavor of high fructose syrup, sugar soda, and we are who we are. And that’s it.”
Instead, they’ve evolved their portfolio. They are very big into people and planet initiatives to do some good in the world — not just sell cases in cases of Coca Cola.
I love examples of brands that have stood the test of time, that have done it through staying relevant, but always owning those distinctive brand assets and always staying relevant to the needs of the consumer.
Doris Nagel
I think a lot of people can relate to Coke and the Nike swoosh and commercials about Nike in their gear.
But let’s talk now about personal branding. How is it similar or different to these big company brands?
Laura Barnard 13:30
I’ll start with how they’re similar. Recall back a few minutes ago, when we talked about this whole idea of a brand being perception, right? It’s the product or service or company brand. Yes, they sell stuff, but it’s ultimately about a perception that they create in the mind of the consumer.
A personal brand is very similar – it is the way an individual is perceived and felt by others. So there are things that we say and things that we do. And there’s a reaction that other people have with that, how they feel about that.
And where those things meet how people perceive what you say and what you do, that is your brand. There’s a Jeff Bezos quote, which I kind of cringe quoting him sometimes because Amazon is one of those conflicting brands, right? Some of the things I have questions about for sure.
But I do like one quote that he has shared. His assessment is that your personal brand is what people say about you when you’re not in the room. So again, that space that you’ve carved out in someone’s heart and mind really is your brand.
So what do you want to be known for? What do you stand for? What are you remembered for?
Personal brands matter because there has to be an emotional connection. There’s this idea of love — it’s not, you’re not a romantic love, but it’s really about creating an emotional connection.
If you are a personal brand, and a namesake brand, we call them that you can’t just appeal to people’s functional needs. You have to appeal to their emotional needs as well, and seek to make those more meaningful emotional connections.
Doris Nagel
Why should an entrepreneur or small business really care about their personal branding? Is personal branding different from my professional brand or my company’s brand?
When I think my personal brand its whether or not I am social. And who are my circle of friends and how big is that circle? And my professional is kind of like my LinkedIn profile. But maybe that’s not really a good distinction?
Laura Barnard 15:51
Another great question, Doris. I love a good Venn diagram. So if you could close your eyes and imagine there’s the circle that is your “personal brand,” and then there’s a circle that encompasses your professional brand.
If you were to intersect those two circles, where those two circles meet, I think that’s where the magic can happen. And that we call that your breakthrough brand. Hence the name of my company. There is this breakthrough, where you can align your personal purpose, mission, vision, the impact you’re seeking, and, and that with, with your professional purpose, mission, and vision impact.
I’ve worked for some really wonderful, large global fortune 500 organizations, and I’ve seen the spectrum. When the organization’s brand and the brand of the leaders were aligned, really amazing things could happen.
When there was a mismatch of values and mismatch of purpose, and the mesh of vision is confusing, it could be chaotic, it’s unclear.
But when that alignment occurs, really great impacts can happen.
And I think for entrepreneurs, sometimes people are reluctant to self-promote, are reluctant to build their personal brand, because they’re focused on their business. But if you’re the if you’re a founder of a company –and I speak this because I’m living it. My story as a founder matters to why people will care. They’ll choose to work with us over many other the branding agencies out there. So my story, as the founder, is a part of the story of the brand “Breakthrough Brands.”
When people can see that that connection, it just again, it’s about that human connection, and I go back to the emotional connection. It’s there’s a real person behind these companies.
And yes, it’s a little bit uncomfortable for people to put themselves out there. To say here’s who I am, here’s what I think, here’s what I stand for.
And here’s my company, and wow, it’s cool, but we stand for the same things. And when they align, it tends to be a more compelling story for people.
Doris Nagel
I’m thinking back to one of my businesses where I almost wanted to hide behind a facade to make myself seem bigger than I was. But I think part of it was that I felt that my personal brand wasn’t enough to attract the clients.
There’s a well-known book called “People Buy You.” Which I believe. But I also think there is this tension between people wanting to be bigger than they are — you know, “fake it till you make it,” right? But at the same time people buy you. But I think it’s an interesting tension.
Laura Barnard 19:00
I love this notion that “people buy you.” And one of our many taglines as we’re as we’re growing and trying out some new communications as an agency ourself is this idea that if you are clear on who you are internally, you can be more clear externally to your audience, to your consumer. And really, I think, to be clear on who you are, it starts with this.
Simon Sinek is a great author and motivational speaker. He says that you must start with your why. Every organization on the planet knows what they do, what they sell, or what they the services they offer, most companies or people or organizations know how they do things, they can talk about what makes them special, or what sets them apart.
But very few organizations — and I say organizations liberally: it can be a startup, it can be a nonprofit, it can be a company, your business — very few companies know why they do what they do, and why is not about making money. If that’s a result, that’s an output, what is your purpose, your cause or belief? It’s the very reason that your company exists.
People care less about what you’ve done, or bullets on your resume, or your track record metrics of success. They care more emotionally about why you’re doing what you’re doing.
I think that ties back to you, Doris, that people by you. As much as they need to know that you’re proficient and credible and professional, that you can deliver the thing, if they don’t understand why you’re doing it, it might be missed opportunity. And they might not have a full picture understanding of you.
Doris Nagel
I have guests on the show every week. And I’m constantly amazed by the intelligence, the creativeness, the persistence of the people that I have on the show who are entrepreneurs, or who help entrepreneurs – and a lot of them are entrepreneurs in their own right.
And it’s just very interesting when I ask people say to give me a few words about yourself, we all want to default to our resume and our bullet point accomplishments.
It’s especially interesting with radio, a medium where you don’t get to have any visual cues, you only get your words and your voice. You don’t get eye contact, you don’t see facial expressions. And yet, we still default to our resume and accomplishments.
Often, I literally have to push on my guests and say, “Yeah, that’s a very nice CV. Yeah, but I don’t think people really care that you have a two masters degrees and a PhD.”
What they really want to know is why you are here. What makes you want to help? It’s funny, but that’s the default for a lot of us, right?
Laura Barnard 22:23
Absolutely. And I’m chuckling right back at you. There’s this amazing, powerful art of storytelling, and it’s a lot of what we coach our clients on.
Our clients are probably 50/50 individual kind of personal brands, maybe your higher profile –I call them pseudo celebrities, because we’re always trying to push to make them more visible. And the other half of our client base is entrepreneurs, founders, people starting things.
And it doesn’t matter on that spectrum who you are, if you’re just starting out or if you’re very established in your career. You have to remember the art of storytelling.
And you mentioned especially with radio where you’re not seeing the nonverbal cues, the acknowledgement, you can’t react to each other quite as well.
But what you can do is paint a picture for people, you know, know, knowing your audience, being authentic, being willing to be a little bit vulnerable, telling stories.
There’s a book that I often share with my students, and it may be interesting for the audience. It’s called “The Leaders Guide to Storytelling,“ by Steven Denning. And there’s a quote that I share from his book that I think will connect with what you’re saying. [Denning] says that anyone who has a new idea and wants to change the world will do better by telling stories than by any amount of logical exportation.
I had to look up the word exportation, but essentially, it’s less about the bullet points, the resume, this laundry list of things that you’ve done, or convincing with facts and figures, and more about using a story to explain what you’re doing, why you’re doing it, who you serve, how you can help people, and how those new ideas can change the world.
The best leaders do this without really thinking about it. They’re just natural storytellers.
And that’s something we coach our clients to do, every day. It’s really, really important. It can be so powerful.
Doris Nagel
Why do you think you’re so passionate about this topic? What is it about you and your background that makes you so passionate about branding?
Laura Barnard 24:37
I think it’s rooted in just general curiosity and empathy. I’m a people person, I’m an extrovert. I’m a team player — a huge team sports person.
I grew up playing any sport with a ball on a field of competition. I was a basketball player through high school here in the Chicago area. And through college as well, where I had the chance to play basketball at Harvard, which was a dream.
I loved, above all, the idea of being part of a team and really understanding what’s going to motivate and drive and guide people. Again, it’s rooted in the psychology of how do we get the best out of this team?
So I am just inherently was curious about people and how people could come together and work together to achieve a goal.
It was a big leap to get into the world of branding and marketing. But I think it’s rooted in this orientation towards people and getting the most out of them. Trying to understand what they need and motivate them to action.
And specifically, there is a moment where I made the choice to transition from the corporate world, after nearly two decades of working and climbing the corporate ladder in the brand management and marketing world.
I had this moment, in 2017, when we had temporarily moved out to the East Coast, and I was closer to my old Harvard basketball coach. And I was thinking about this idea of branding and applying what I knew about branding to individuals.
[My old coach’s] name is Kathy Delaney Smith. She’s the winningest coach in Ivy League history, men’s or women’s, in any sport. Yet I pretty much guarantee you nobody knows her name.
So she’s the winningest coach in the history of the Ivy League who no one has ever heard of, because she has never spent one moment on building her brand. And it’s not self serving brand. It’s a brand that I believe could really inspire and in lead towards impact for others.
So I reached out to her with this terrible idea. “Kathy? Can I help you with your brand?” And she kind of said, ”My what?” And I said, Well, let’s think about it. You have a message.” And she said, “No, I’m a basketball coach.”
And I told her, “But now you’re more than a coach. We played for you. We were part of your alumni network. Now we get to listen to your words of wisdom, your leadership lessons are instilled in us. And gosh, wouldn’t it be great if more people could hear what you have to say? What if we could amplify your voice, amplify your reach to people. You know, bottle up what you’re thinking and put it put it into a podcast, put it into a book and just get it out to more young women. Those are really powerful lessons of leadership, powerful lessons of empowerment.”
So she was our loving first guinea pig client. She was a proof of concept for us as women leaders — who and I say this lovingly — must be more visible. The world needs more visible women leaders. And there are people out there with great messages, that are great role models.
And if we can help get some of them out there through their brands connecting with those consumers, that audience that’s out there, in a meaningful way, we can make the world a better place.
I know that sounds a little bit pollyannish, but Kathy is one of those people who can make a difference in the world and has done the work. So now we’re helping her just amplify her voice and her message.
Doris Nagel
You know, Laura, I love how aligned you and I are in our own business goals.
I was just reading yesterday about the things that hold women entrepreneurs back. There are a number of things.
Obviously, lack of funding is one of them. Women-owned startups still get only about 2% of venture capital money, which to me, in 2021, almost 2022 is completely insane, right? And women of color, or minority women, get even less, of course.
But one of the other interesting things that holds women back is confidence.
I see that in myself. But I even see if with my radio show. I sometimes have a real challenges getting women entrepreneurs on the show.
Women entrepreneurs are more likely to take a lot more persuading to be on the show. Tey’re more likely to cancel at the last minute.
I wish this weren’t so. I realize I haven’t done any big survey, and I’m sure my sample size is not statistically relevant. But you know, at some level, your anecdotal evidence starts to really mount and when you start to see it consistently, you know in your gut it’s a trend.
And it literally breaks my heart. Because on the other hand, I’ve had a couple of male guests who were basically engaged in a bunch of puffery about how great they were, and how wonderful their company was, and all the things they were doing and how they were going to take on the world.
And yet, my experience over the past 3 years of doing this show is that a lot of women entrepreneurs are just not confident enough.
Here’s a specific example. I reached out to a woman who was a partner in a venture capital fund. Now she’s still a pretty rare bird. There are more and more female VC partners, but it’s slow. And the lack of women VCs is one of the reasons why women don’t get a lot of funding. As you say, there needs to be more of those voices.
A mutual acquaintance had really recommended her as a guest, so I reached out to her. And you know what she told me? She said, “I’m used to being part of a panel,” she said. “If you want to put together a panel, just let me know, but I’m not sure how comfortable I am just speaking on my own.”
At that point, my head exploded. Here is the rare woman venture capitalist. And she’s only comfortable speaking on a panel? How can she be a strong voice if she doesn’t believe she has anything worthwhile to offer?
Laura Barnard 31:04
Right. The person you think should have the most confidence often has the least. They’re holding it together, but behind the scenes there, there’s some fear.
People throw the words “imposter syndrome” around, but that that is one of the one of the better descriptions of what I think is going on.
And as I mentioned, and you’re pulling the thread through, what we ultimately deliver for our clients, 99% of whom are women, is confidence and clarity. You need that before you figure out what to do next – the strategy, the path, the plan, you know, if they need a website, whatever, that’s the stuff that we do. What we do is get them clear on what to do, but it really, really, really starts with confidence.
There’s a great podcast called “Pod Save the People,” and this woman Brittany Packnet is a remarkable leade and co host of that podcast. If you google search her, she’s self-described as completely obsessed with confidence and really views it as the necessary spark before anything that follows.
And I think that the number one thing that it requires – and this is gonna sound kind of odd — but is being really curious about yourself. And this is about self reflection.
So take that example of the woman that you shared. In this example, we would work with you to help you understand your worth. You must take stock of the assets that you have within you. You have to be willing to do that internal work.
Because the self-doubt creeps in, the imposter syndrome creeps. You start to feel that you don’t belong, you’re not qualified to be in a certain role, that you can only perform on a panel.
Whatever it is, that’s the creeping in of self-doubt. And to combat that you have to be you own best advocate You must, in a way, be your own coach
It’s easier said than done. And this is where we come in. To help supplement that. We are part psychologist, and part coach.
Doris Nagel
And part cheerleader, too, right? Another sports analogy!
Laura Barnard 33:05
100%. And we are all susceptible to self-doubt, we’re all susceptible to negative self-talk.
But there’s this idea that we all have within us the ability to flip the switch, if you will. To instead engage in positive self-talk.
Not to pick on this person you mentioned, but this person in the venture capital firm clearly has expertise. So they need to lean into that and remind themselves of that. And if they can’t do it themselves, then you need to surround yourself with resources, or trusted friends or loved ones who know you best and bring you back to yourself remind you of that.
And that touches on another part of what we do. When I’m working one on one with clients, I can say all these things to them, it sounds good. But if they don’t really internalize it, and believe it, no action will occur.
So we also we ask our clients to identify a group of four or five of their key stakeholders in their life, and we interview them on behalf of the client. These are the people who can best speak to their strengths, talents, and abilities.
Then we show the client the results. We say, “If you don’t, don’t believe this about yourself, listen to what the people who know you best are saying about you.”
And that often sparks something in them. It reminds them again of who they are, what they can do. And the idea that they’re in control.
It really is a such a great exercise that we do. And we learn so much about the client, and they learn about themselves. But it hopefully feeds into that feeling, of “Hey, I can do this. I have the strength. I have the expertise. Again, getting over the hump of self-confidence.
Doris Nagel
I think that’s so important to have that as your foundation.
Because it’s like a house built on a nice solid foundation. When you’re an entrepreneur, there are times when there are hurricane winds that assault you and ginormous chunks of hail. Your house is going to get assaulted from a lot of different directions, because that’s the nature of trying to build a business from scratch.
And if your foundation isn’t strong, your house is going to be pretty wobbly.
So I think of what you’re doing is as shoring up the foundation.
Laura, let’s talk about action steps people can take.
How do I know whether I have good personal branding? If I have good personal branding, what does that accomplish? Or what am I not accomplishing if I don’t have good personal branding?
Laura Barnard 35:27
The easy answer is just you can just schedule an appointment with me, right? That’s what I’m here for — to help people get started. And that kind of takes the pressure off people, so that they don’t have to do this alone, they don’t have to do this themselves. We have a team of experts that are really good at this, that really care about this. And we’ve served over 75 clients so far, and are building our bench that have experience helping guide people through this personal branding journey.
But how else to get started? How do I know if I if I have a brand, whether it’s good or bad? What is it? Who cares? Why does it even matter if I have a good personal brand?
I think one of the best ways to get started is something that everyone can do on their own. And I’m coming into this with the with the hypothesis, or the principle that we must all be clear, internally, on who we are. We must be clear on our strengths, our talents, abilities, in order to be externally clear.
So step one – internal clarity — leads to external clarity, and external clarity is how you show up in the world, how your brand shows up in the world.
But how you get started is an internal exercise. I like to coach and encourage people to step into into what we call the Growth Mindset. I’m sure many of you, you, too, Doris, have heard of this phrase. It was coined by a Stanford psychologist named Carol Dweck.
It’s this belief that our most basic abilities can be developed through dedication through hard work. It’s not just that you were born a certain way, with this brain and that talent. It’s not fixed. I believe that it can grow, it can be developed.
It really is about loving to learn, and withstanding adversity and resilience. So I want to encourage people when they start with this internal work to step into that Growth Mindset.
Then really start with an assessment of your own strengths. Clearly define who are you know, what you stand for, what you’re good at, what you want to be known for.
Write down your personal narrative, your story. Know your strengths, do a Strengths Assessment, an honest assessment — not a bashful or reluctant self assessment. But a very strong positive assessment.
And then write down your personal narrative. In this exercise, a lot of people journal, a lot of people write great blogs or articles.
But when’s the last time you actually really sat down and thought about your story? There are different frameworks or ways to go at it. The simplest one is chronological.
But I encourage people to consider the milestone marker moments on their journey. What are the moments that changed you? What are the choices that you made, your momentum shifters, those milestone marker moments on your journey?
Then orient your narrative around those things. Look back at it, what have you found? When you did your Strengths Assessment, what did you discover when you look at your story? Is it the one you want the world to know?
And then about whether your brand is good or bad. We do all of this as part of our work with clients. It sounds kind of cold and callous, but it’s more of a systematic way, like doing a brand audit.
We also look at our client’s digital presence. As you know, Doris, we live in a world where your online reputation precedes you. So when people search you, what do they find? Are you easy to search? We need to be discoverable, right? And when people find you, where do they find you? What do they learn about you? What might they assume you stand for? What can you do? How can you serve them etc.
So when we do that digital brand audit, we help you understand how good or bad, or how strong or weak, your brand is from a consumer audience perspective.
Doris Nagel
Also I’m guessing how It compares with what people are saying or thinking about you and what you say about yourself.
I’m just thinking of myself, quite honestly. We all default back to what we know and what’s easiest.
So we do these little sort of mechanical things. You go to LinkedIn, and it asks you to fill out your profile, so you come up with something, and you throw it out there. And you do that for each of the different media platforms.
But what I’ve thrown out there and people are reading is probably not the same as what I would really want to say about myself. And I bet I’m not unique.
Laura Barnard 40:14
No, you are not. And you bring up a really excellent point.
The questions I would ask you are: “What are you known for? And what you want to be known for?” And be honest in that assessment.
As I said, your online presence, or online reputation often precedes you in any sort of real world or actual connection with others. They’re going to see your LinkedIn profile, they’re going to see an article you maybe wrote or were mentioned in.
Not to sound overly manipulative, but how are you controlling the narrative? What are you putting out into the world? Is what you’re putting out there, or what your featured in, or knowing or doing is that match up with what you want to be known for, doesn’t match up with, you know, if there’s a greater impact that you’re seeking? Are those pieces of content that are floating around out there? Are they are they bread, crumbing leading people to the place where hey, this person stands for this, and I can work with them for this, and I can collaborate with them on these types of things.
So you have to guide people and there are ways to control the narrative that’s out there. A great place to star, which is quite basic and foundational, is your LinkedIn profile.
For a lot of people, it’s a platform for networking. And it’s also an opportunity to sort of put up that billboard for yourself visually. There’s a short “about me” section where you can include some version of your resume.
And you have less than 30 seconds to make an impression if someone’s happens to search you and find you on there. There’s a couple of scrolls that they’ll do, they’ll pick out certain thing, But what impression are you giving, and is that what you want it to be?
That’s the point of all this: so people can find you, and very quickly know what you stand for, what you can do for them, how you can serve them, or how they might work with you.
And that’s pretty critical to any business.
Doris Nagel
A lot of solopreneurs talk about finding their tribe, their community, their raving fans, people who are going to be repeat customers.
I think it’s really important digitally to tell people pretty quickly who you’re not. You’re not going to be for everybody, and so you need to decide who are those people that you ARE going to be for. And so people can pretty quickly decide, ah, this is somebody I want to follow, or this is somebody that I can relate to, right?
Laura Barnard 42:36
Absolutely.
So who is your audience? In the branding and marketing world, we talk a lot about target audience — who’s your audience?
I’ll share a couple of things on that, too. My questions is always, “Who cares? Why does this matter?”
For individuals– those solopreneurs — and small business owners out there, knowing your audience helps you filter what you say, and what you do for the greatest impact.
As for impact, you have to define that for yourself. For some, it’s maximizing revenue. For some, it’s saving the planet. There’s a wide range of impacst.
So knowing your audience helps you figure out what you put out there, content-wise, product-wise, services-wise — messaging that people will care about. And for the people in your audience, your potential audience or consumers or clients out there, you have to be relevant to them.
So there are things that you want to say, and that you want to put out into the world should be what others are interested in hearing. Or that is serving them in some way, or that will be relevant to them.
So knowing your audience helps you achieve relevance. And once you once you find you’re relevant to someone, then they’re more likely to work with you, to hire you, to pay you for whatever it is that you’re offering.
Doris Nagel
What do you do with people who are not very clear about their personal brand or their why?
I mean, we’re all pretty good at hiding things about ourselves, and coming up with ways to rationalize our fears.
If it were easy to get the truth about myself or break through my fears, I’m sure I could sit down with Simon Sinek’s “Start with Why,” and his exercise book “Finding Your Why.” And just crank through it.
But it’s not so easy for most of us. So how do you get past some of the noise and the fears and the resistance and the fogginess that that a lot of us have?
Laura Barnard 44:40
What you’re describing is a great challenge. It’s one that I think some kinds of people are easier than others to work through that with in what we call the”Discovery Phase”. And that’s essentially a guided self-reflection.
I ask a lot of questions. And I’m trying to unearth something that’s within the person that they’re either reluctant about, or afraid of, or unclear of how to say it, and how to present it to the world.
So there’s this gem inside of them. Some people describe as motivational interviewing. But again, it comes back to that curiosity of having someone– a trusted third party, ie, someone like me, or others — ask questions and just really push to uncover your purpose and impact and not letting people off the hook. If they kind of give a half answer.
I really, with good intent and love in my heart, push people to get to the place where they’re clear. And it takes time. It takes dedicated time it takes dedicated self reflection. It’s not about reading the book and doing the exercise on page 5, and you’ve solved it. It takes time, and it takes work.
And I believe it’s really hard to do completely alone, in isolation alone. So that’s where someone can help. And again, I mention those key stakeholders, those people that know you best. We really lean heavily into those interviews with people who can give us insights into the client. And then we play it back to them and say, “Hey, you’re known for these things. Isn’t that amazing? What do you think?”
We’re always looking for those salient themes of the person, themes that they feel good about, and that are pressure tested by their key stakeholders. It’s help to help them say, “This is who I am,” and let them sort of try that out for a while.
So when we work with clients, it’s usually about a three or four week process. And it’s not to imply it’s a one and done in three or four weeks.
But it’s a commitment that is made by the client, both timewise and financially, that we’re going to guide you and be your accountability buddy through this thing.
And then get you to a place where you where you are over the hump of being reluctant. Where you are willing to put that plan together to position and guide your brand, and then we’ll help you bring it to life.
Doris Nagel
Now I can definitely see why you have a psychology background!
What are some of the most common mistakes people make with their personal branding? And of course, I’m not talking about your clients, because they have seen the light and are on the sunny side of the street.
But as a professional I’m sure you look at messaging from lots of people in organizations. What do you see as some of the most common mistakes?
Laura Barnard 53:43
I think that the mistakes come back to thinking that you can do it alone. Most of the great leaders that I know either hire consultants, or have surrounded themselves with people who lift them up, who inspire them, who support them.
And when you find yourself thinking that you’re a lone wolf, out there on your own, I often encourage people to rethink that and find your tribe, as you mentioned. But really, I think it’s a closer circle than a tribe. These are people who will build you up and support you and help you see and become the best version of yourself.
You know, I think back to my coach, Coach Kathy, thinking she could do it all herself. People who are proud thinking they can do it alone.
think the other pitfall I often see is this idea that my experience will speak for itself. My resume will speak for itself. I’ve done the work. I’m credible in my field. I’m a subject matter expert.
Then you just sit back and wait for the world to say, “Wow, that’s so great. Can you come be a keynote speaker on my stage,” or “I want to feature you in this article.”
You have to make yourself visible. This idea of being a wallflower by serving in the background, and expecting great results or expecting impacts.
So, purpose-driven impact is a pitfall I see often, especially for women. I have a lot of dear friends and clients who have been so focused on their jobs. I know that sounds kind of silly, but are focused on climbing a ladder within the organization. And that’s the be all, end all.
But guess what. Organizations change, they grow. There are reorganizations and layoffs. And if you hitch your wagon to the to a certain star of a company and the company gets bought or acquired or changes track and you’re no longer there, what do you do next? So there’s a tendency to over commit to one organization, to one career [rather than staying focused on your personal brand] that sometimes can be a limiting factor for people.
Doris Nagel
Another way to put that for entrepreneurs is that they spend too much time working in their business, not enough working ON their business.
Laura Barnard
Tell me more about that. Doris. What do you see with that?
Doris Nagel
What I see are lots of entrepreneurs working “in the business.” Things they have got to do today, the crisis du jour. And then they say they are just so busy, that they don’t have time to do anything strategic. Many times, though, it’s tasks that are urgent, but not really important for the CEO to be involved in.
And when I say working “on the business,” I mean stepping back and thinking about what this business needs? What can I contribute? What other things do I need to make the business be successful?
And I guess I think you need to be able to step back and make that distinction in order to find the time to do personal branding and marketing and things like that.
That is definitely “Do as I say, not as I do, of course.” I’m not saying that I’m very good at this myself, but I’ve just seen that you are more likely to be successful if you spend plenty of time working on the business, and not totally focused on being in it.
Give me a couple of example or funny stories of where personal branding is not quite where it needs to be. You don’t have to use any names of course!
Laura Barnard 51:05
We’ve seen the good, the bad, the ugly of this reality TV culture, and I think about examples where these mostly celebrities get the spotlight. They get the followers and they get the grab the attention of our culture, right, they are in this primo seat to do something.
But then you wonder what they are actually doing with that position of power. One bad example, I think, are the Kardashians. They have this reality show, they have these brands, and there is super, super high brand awareness of people’s eyeballs on them. But for what? What is achieved?
It’s less funny and kind of more tragic, because it’s such a missed opportunity to really use that visibility for good. I’m sure there are causes and nonprofits that they’re contributing to. And that’s wonderful. I don’t mean to under undermine any of that.
But I think about those situations where visibility is not the problem, but rather a really clear purpose-driven impact is missing.
There are many of those examples, I think, out in the world. And I think people – especially the younger generations — are becoming less tolerant of those more superficial celebrity brands. And they’re really pushing in wanting to follow personal brands that are more inspired, more inspiring, helping drive meaningful change in the world.
They are also more interested in working for companies that are more purpose driven. There are still jobs where people go to work for the paycheck. But I think people who have the opportunity and the privilege to assess are making choices about where they work, who they follow. So hopefully, the Kardashians will be something people make fun of, where celebrity is not wasted.
Doris Nagel
That’s funny and very insightful.
Laura, the time has absolutely flown by. I think we could probably talk for another hour on some of the examples of ways that people or companies can do a better job with their branding.
Before we wrap up, I want to give you a chance to let my listeners know how they can reach you if they have questions, or they’d like more information about branding.
Laura Barnard
The easiest ways is to visit our website, which is www.breakthrubrands.com.
On the site, there’s a way to book exploratory calls there with me personally get to know our team better. What we do is build brands, personally and professionally, for people that that stand for something, and to help them break through barriers.
We’re focused on empowering clients, instilling confidence in them, as we talked a lot about today. And really, you know, this, this strategic pushing in collaborative pushing people to stand up for who they are, and have the greatest impact on the world. So we anyone out there, who’s you know, seeking that impact will help, you know, hopefully, on your journey to get clear on your purpose and and help you activate and realize that impacts. So visit the website. And there’s a way to get in contact with me there. And I’d love to hear from from any of you.
Doris Nagel
It’s sounds like something I could use!
Laura, thanks so much for being with it with me today. It was really a pleasure having you as my guest this week!
Laura Barnard
I appreciate you having me. It was great chatting with you. And I appreciate you having me on your show.
Doris Nagel
Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
And thanks, especially again to my guest today. Laura Barnard, founder and owner of BreakTHRU brands who join me this week to talk about personal branding, and why it’s so important for small businesses and startups as well.
You can find more helpful information for entrepreneurs and small business on my consulting website, globalocityservices.com, as well as my new radio show website, thesavvyentrepreneur.org, where you’ll find lots of blogs, tools, podcasts and other free resources.
My door is always open for comments, questions and suggestions. You can email me at dnagel@thesavvyentrepreneur.org. I promise you’ll always get an answer back from me.
Be sure to join me again next Saturday at 11am Central Time/noon Eastern.
But until then, I’m Doris Nagel, wishing you happy entrepreneuring!
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