Ed Dernulc. He is the Foundation Director of something called Nuts, Bolts and Thingamajigs (or “NBT,” for short). It’s the foundation arm of the Fabricators and Manufacturers Association (FMA). He joined The Savvy Entrepreneur recently to talk about jobs and entrepreneurship in manufacturing.
NBT’s mission is to connect that next generation of entrepreneurs and manufacturers to consider careers in the manufacturing industry.
Ed says that the number one thing that keeps him up at night, along with NBT’s and FMA’s members, is not supply chain, it’s not the cost of raw materials, and it’s not finding parts. It’s is human resources.
The U.S. today has about a 2-million-person manufacturing skills gap — meaning there are 2 million jobs in manufacturing that employers can’t fill. And it’s only growing, so the need is definitely there.
Truly, Ed says, one of the biggest things that Nuts Bolts & Thingamajigs tries to tackle is to change perceptions about manufacturing. Manufacturing has changed dramatically over the past few years. It is no longer the dark and dangerous place people might envision. There are also misperceptions about salary, and skills needed, as well as expected salaries and career paths (hint: the growing labor shortfall has driven up salaries, and by quite a lot for certain skillsets).
To help address those gaps, Nuts Bolts & Thingamajigs offers scholarships, education, and outreach. But it’s probably best known for the week-long camps that it hosts to expose 12-16 year-olds to the world of manufacturing.
In 2022, NBT has grown to 165 camps in 25 states and Canada. The camps are structured building some kind of project, and also around local industry sponsors, who give students insights into what it’s like to work in manufacturing.
NBT also offers Glow & Gadget camps for young women. Today, women represent only about 12% of manufacturing employment.
The overall goal of both camps is to spark curiosity and open students’ minds to the possibility of careers in manufacturing, including many different types of entrepreneurial opportunities.
The following is a transcript of our chat, but you can go here if you’d prefer to listen to the interview.
Doris Nagel 0:08
Hello & welcome to The Savvy Entrepreneur Show!
If you’re an entrepreneur or small businessperson, or are thinking about becoming one, this show is for you.
I’m Doris Nagel, your host for the next hour. I’ve counseled lots of startups and small businesses over the past 30 years. And I’ve also been involved in starting at least nine different businesses.
I have seen lots of mistakes, and I myself have made so many mistakes. So one of my goals — and the reason I do this show — is to share information and resources to help entrepreneurs maybe not make some of those mistakes.
The second goal of the show is to inspire. I found being an entrepreneur is often lonely and confusing. You have no idea if you’re on the right track or not.
To help with both those goals, I have guests on the show who are willing to share their stories and their advice and talk about resources available for entrepreneurs.
This week’s guest is Ed Dernulc. He is the Foundation Director of something called Nuts, Bolts and Thingamajigs. It’s the foundation arm of the Fabricators and Manufacturers Association. You’ll hear about both of these them today, as well as some of the amazing things that the Foundation is up to.
Ed, welcome to The Savvy Entrepreneur Show. Thanks so much for being with me today.
Ed Dernulc
Doris, it’s a pleasure. Thank you for having me on.
Doris Nagel
First of all, I love the name! It’s so clever. What is Nuts, Bolts and Thingamajigs, or NBT, as you refer to it on your website? What does it do?
Ed Dernulc 2:07
As you mentioned, we’re the mission side of the Fabricators and Manufacturers Association, or FMA.
FMA is made up of four pillars. One of them is our expo fab tech, I’m sure many people in the manufacturing world have heard of FAB tech. And we are a partner with that. And we put that on every year.
Second is our membership and education where we have close to 2500 members throughout the country, as well as in in Mexico and Canada.
Thirdly, is our circulations. We have a number of circulations throughout Canada and in the United States, with our premier publication being The Fabricator.
And then fourth is the mission side. Our mission is to connect that next generation of entrepreneurs and manufacturers to consider this as a career pathway into the manufacturing industry. So that’s the basis of what makes up FMA, and how NBT fits into FMA.
Doris Nagel
What a great goal! We certainly do need talent for the next generation and continuing generations of bright minds and talented people in manufacturing.
How does NBT deliver on its mission? What are some of the programs and offerings that you have?
Ed Dernulc 3:43
We have a board both at NBT and FMA made up of manufacturers throughout the country.
And one of the things that we always talk to our members and board members about is: what is your number one issue?
And it’s not supply chain. It’s not the cost of steel. It’s not finding parts. It is human resources.
So how does NBT help with our members and our industry as far as helping with that human resource need?
We have three programs that that are embedded into NBT which we’re very proud of. Our long-term approach is our NBT camp program. It’s been around the longest –it’s been around for over 15 years. It started with a camp in the Rockford Illinois area.
And we’re proud to say that this year we’ll have 165 camps in 25 states and Canada. It’s our first time in Canada. In these camps, we expose young adults aged 12 to 16, and for many of them it’s their first foray into the manufacturing industry. These camps are a week long. They’re held at local Fab Labs, technical schools, universities, and high schools.
Last week, for example, I was in Louisville at the University of Louisville. I was at Indiana University, Purdue University in Indianapolis. I was at Harper College in Palatine, Illinois. And then I was at Purdue Northwest in Hammond, Indiana, visiting all the camps.
There’s normally about 10 to 15 kids in each camp, and they get a week- long experience into manufacturing. We help the camps with curriculum and with projects. And we look for two major things: one of them is a building project. It could be a pendulum clock, it could be a coffee table, it could be a number of things which have been done in our camps over the decades.
And the other thing that we really, really insist on is a partnership with local manufacturers. We want either the manufacturers to come in and talk to the kids, or even better, have the kids go out and take a tour of a manufacturing plant.
As I like to say, Doris, it’s a micro macro kind of experience. The micro part is building one project, and the macro part is looking at a manufacturing company build millions of widgets, or projects, or inventory, whatever that is. So that is our first program, which we have at NBT. Now, like I mentioned, it takes a long-term approach.
Doris Nagel
Just a couple of quick questions about the camps. How do you develop new camps? Do you select a location and then look for local sponsors? Or do people come to you now and say, “We’ve heard about this, we want to do one, and can you help us put it together?”
Ed Dernulc 7:06
So the answer is yes. We do a really good job of recruiting. We recruit with our current group of camps, saying you did one this year, would you consider doing three next year. We also do a lot of recruiting throughout the country.
I talk to high schools, colleges, technical schools throughout the country. It seems like every day we’re talking and connecting with new folks. I was on a call yesterday with a with a new school in Chicago.
We’re always talking to potential new partners. We do a really good job of reaching out in marketing these camps, so a lot of people know about them. And we’ve had a lot of folks in the last probably four years that have approached us, wanting to learn more. As I said, we work very closely with the local high schools, with technical colleges, community colleges, four-year colleges, anywhere where they have a fabricating kind of curriculum.
So that’s how we grow it.
Doris Nagel
How did you decide to focus on the age 12 to 16 segment?
Ed Dernulc 8:23
That’s a great question. During COVID, in 2020, we did an impact study. And this impact study really was a peeling back of the onion of our programs. And what it said, through the number of interviews we had with manufacturers, with teachers, with former students, with administrators, is that you need to get at these young adults earlier rather than later.
Because if you start talking to them, if you start the initial conversation at 16, you’ve probably lost them already. There’s already too much peer pressure, mom and dad, the uncle who’s an attorney, guidance counselors…
Doris Nagel
And television. How many future doctors did we get from kids glued to “Grey’s Anatomy?”
Ed Dernulc 9:18
Exactly. So what our study has found is that you really need to start somewhere between 12 in 16, preferably 12. Because this is when the world is starting to open up to young kids. And so that is the thing has been the impetus to get at them earlier.
And we had literally a very lively discussion with our board. Our board felt that we should be reaching out to older kids. And we came back with our impact study, and we said, we’ve got the facts. The data is telling us that we have got to get to them earlier.
Plus, at an earlier age, you’re able to start chipping away at the myths and the misunderstandings about manufacturing: that it’s dark, it’s dangerous, it’s dirty.
I don’t know about you, Doris, but I go through a number of manufacturing companies annually, and you can eat off the floors. In these places, it’s not 1950 anymore. It is 2022. And safety for the employees is tantamount for these business owners.
So when you go in there, you are very impressed, by the way these organizations are run. So we try to get to them early to break down those myths. To make it a career pathway.
Doris Nagel
I want to circle back to those myths.
But I derailed you earlier, when you were talking about the three programs that you have. I want to let you finish talking about the other two. And then we could circle back and talk more about the myths of manufacturing, because it’s a pretty interesting topic, I think.
Ed Dernulc 11:13
Yes, absolutely.
Our second program, which is our short-term approach is our scholarship program. We give about 90 to $95,000 a year in scholarships annually, which is about 55 to 60 scholarships each year to young adults who are going into the manufacturing world.
That could be anything from getting your certificate to be a welder, to getting a two-year degree in HVAC, to getting your four-year mechanical engineering degree.
We are very agnostic. We just want individuals who are going into the manufacturing world. And we call this our short-term approach, because these are the young adults that within the next two or three years that are going to be in the manufacturing industry.
So we want to get them through their curriculum faster, with less debt and burden on them. So they can just jump right in into the industry. It’s been a marvelous program, and it continues to grow.
And quite frankly, it’s an area dear to my heart because I want to grow this even more. I would love to be giving away $250 a year, given the shocking cost of education.
Doris Nagel
Absolutely. Anything you can do to help that I’m sure would fall on fertile ground, that’s for sure.
Ed Dernulc 12:42
Absolutely. Just to your point, with the cost of education, a scholarship we give may allow a student to take two or three classes instead of one or two. So, their progression is moved along faster, because they’ve got this financial support from us. So that’s our second program.
And our third program, which is near and dear to us, is new. We just started to develop it through the kindness and generosity of the Mitsubishi Education America Foundation. So we a grant from the Mitsubishi Foundation that is geared toward helping those who have special needs. It could be anything from cerebral palsy, to blindness, to deafness, but they want to make an impact with those who have disabilities.
So we came to them in 2019 and told them we have this concept where we want to build a camp that would help young adults who have special needs, help them get into the manufacturing sector. Remember, I said the number one issue for our members and board members is human resources. And this is an area that’s overlooked, it’s fertile.
There are young adults who are looking for jobs and many times are overlooked. They are very capable, and excited about getting into the industry.
We’re having our first two camps this year. Our first one was at Triton College in River Forest [Illinois]. Our second one will be up in Appleton, Wisconsin at the end of August [2022]. And our third one will be in the Tampa/Orlando, Florida area in 2023, and we are in the process of developing that.
So because of Mitsubishi’s kindness and generosity, we were able to develop this program. And what we’re learning very quickly is that it’s a partnership. You have to have coordination of partners.
Usually there’s four partners involved. There is the social service side, there’s the educational side, there’s the business side — businesses have to be intimately involved here. And then there’s the student side.
We bring these four sectors together to form a camp. They learn soft skills, like how to interview, how to interact in an office, how to how to work within a manufacturing plant. And they learn hard skills, so they get training at the camp of what it’s like to work with a lathe, or work with a CNC machine, or whatever.
And then the third area is a short internship, going into the companies and working for a week or two, and learning what it is to be in a manufacturing setting.
We’re still kind of in the beta process of this. But we are really excited. And this is an area where we will be growing over the coming years, I don’t think we’ll ever get to 165 of these, but who’s to stop us from getting to 25?
Doris Nagel
What I love about how you’ve described this program is that you stay connected and try to keep these individuals within the manufacturing community. I think back to my summer camps, and I had a great time. It was interesting, but I was young and there were a lot of distractions. And there’s even more today.
And once I was gone, it was really “out of sight, out of mind.” So I like the idea that you’re actively trying to engage some of the camp participants in internships and finding ways to keep them in touch and part of that community, which I think probably going to be a really successful piece of the program.
Ed Dernulc
I would agree with you totally.
Doris Nagel
Ed, I can hear the passion in your voice. – it just shines right through.
Talk about your background a little. How did you get involved with the Nuts Bolts and Thingamajigs Foundation?
Ed Dernulc 17:15
I’ve had an interesting journey. I started off as a finance major at Indiana University and spent 20 plus years in banking. I was in commercial banking, and then got into private banking, and then got into the advisory side of it. At one point, I was managing a fairly large private banking division for a publicly traded company. I got to know all kinds of industry sectors as well as all kinds of individuals of wealth. I had the privilege of getting under the hood of many wealthy people.
And I would be in manufacturing plants, I’d be at startups, I’d be at a number of industries, advising individuals about their legacy, and helping them preserve and grow their wealth.
Then 2008 comes along, and everyone knows that that was recession. It was a very bad time for any financial sector. I happened to be on a committee for the Alexian Brothers Hospital, and at that time, they were in the process of a feasibility study to find out if they should build a Women and Children’s Hospital.
Then they had a change in management in their foundation. And the woman who was in charge of our committee became the head of their foundation. One day we met, and we were talking about how we could partner more closely. And finally, she looked at me and she said, “I want to hire you. You’re exactly the guy I’m looking for.”
I told him I had never been in philanthropy – I had been in banking whole life. But she said, “It doesn’t matter. I want I need someone who’s comfortable with the C suite, with business owners, and wealthy people, because it basically is the same kind of networking, the same thought process about building a legacy.”
Long story short, I took a leap of faith in and in 2008, I became a member of the Alexian Brothers Foundation. I spent six years there and loved every minute of it. I love the Brothers. I love their mission. It was such an impactful experience for me.
After that, I became the Executive Director of Norwegian American Hospital Foundation, because of my background in healthcare with Alexian.
I spent three years there, and then had the opportunity to head up Nuts, Bolts and Thingamajigs. I thought it was a great opportunity, because I was going to be able to apply my finance and banking background along with my philanthropic background.
And it has been really just a lot of fun. Over the last four and a half years that I’ve been with NBT and FMA, we’ve made an impact, and we’re going to continue to make an impact. It’s been a wonderful experience for me, and I’m very blessed to be with FMA and MBT.
Doris Nagel
Well, you’re certainly making a difference. And it’s got to be inspiring, helping shape the careers of so many young people.
Let’s circle back to the myths that we were talking about earlier. There are certainly the myths you touched on earlier — that the manufacturing plants are dark or dangerous or sweatshops – bad places to work.
But I think another myth is that the jobs are all going away, that robots will take over all the jobs.
How true is that myth? Where are the safe jobs in manufacturing? Where do you see things evolving and growing there?
Ed Dernulc 21:20
Great question. I tell people, failure is not an option with NBT. Because you have three potential outcomes. One of them is that the manufacturing jobs will move to India to China to Mexico. That’s a loss of jobs.
The second possibility is that automation and robotics will increase, and that’s a loss of jobs, even though there will be a need for someone to program and repair the robots. But there’s still a loss of manufacturing jobs, because the robot is now doing the work of maybe three or four people, right?
And then there’s the third option: concentrate on training, including training young adults to get into this industry. So I think some of the greatest job growth is going to be in the manufacturing side.
Many of our members are mom and pop tool and die companies. I would say at least 50% of our membership is made up of companies under $25 million in revenue. So there is this tremendous opportunity for this entrepreneurial spirit to really explode.
Manufacturing is the third or the fourth largest industry in the in the United States — only behind steel, automotive and agricultural, I think.
And [manufacturing] plays such a vital role. It’s a connector for all kinds of industries.
For example, building an automobile brings in steel, and fabricating, electronics, you name it. It’s a collaboration, and we need that next generation of entrepreneurs in the manufacturing realm to push the industry forward. It’s so vital to the overall economy of the United States.
Failure is not an option. We have to push forward and help the industry and continue to make it vibrant and strong.
Doris Nagel
What kinds of skills do you see as being the most needed? And which are the least likely to be outsourced to robotics in the near future?
Ed Dernulc 23:56
I would say there’s three areas that there’s opportunity. First and foremost is the trades. As I like to say, I can find an accountant or a lawyer on every corner. But I can’t find anyone who’s a plumber or an electrician or a welder.
Doris Nagel
And that’s not just manufacturing. That’s our homes & offices. Everyone is asking, “Where’s my handyman? Why can’t I find a guy to fix my plumbing or my electrical issue? I can’t get anyone!”
Ed Dernulc 24:25
Right. And when you find one, you aren’t sharing them with anyone.
So the key to that is really encouraging the individuals who want to use their hands.
Mom and dad always want their child to be the next Clarence Darrow, but maybe all they really want to do is be underneath the hood of a car.
So let’s encourage that. Let’s grow that. So there’s that trade side.
The next area is the design side. Being able to design things that are going to be needed. Within manufacturing, there’s such a need for good designers.
Doris Nagel
Are you talking about like CAD-CAM skills?
Ed Dernulc 25:09
Exactly. And then the third area is coding area. There’s such a need of it.
I was at a camp recently at Purdue where they built robots. Then they coded the robots to go through the maze or course that they had developed. They had to actually drive the robot through the course to make sure that it was built well and that the programming was correct, and if it wasn’t, going back to correct the coding.
And these were 12- and 13-year-old kids — way above my paygrade! I was utterly amazed at the ingenuity, the brilliance of these young kids, and how quickly they caught on to do this stuff.
So there’s going to be a need in all three of those areas. I tell people all the time, there are no dummies running CNC machines.
Doris Nagel
What is CNC?
Ed Dernulc
It’s precision grinding. And it usually needs to be within 1/100th, if 1000th of the spec. That’s the kind of precision that these machines have to make these parts. And it’s the individual who’s programming that machine that eventually will look at that piece and decide whether the quality of a piece is good or not good.
It’s amazing to watch these individuals who run these machines. And like I said, they are no dummies — they’re very bright.
Doris Nagel
You mentioned earlier that coding as a key skill. I will echo that. My daughter is just finishing up her master’s degree in statistics. And there’s plenty of jobs for people in data analytics and statistics, including in manufacturing as well, for people who might be interested in that aspect.
But she says the one thing she wishes she had done differently was to take more coding classes, sign up for a coding camp, or take an online course.
She tells me that in her coding classes at the university, people from all different majors are taking coding classes. So if you have kids out there, or you’re a young person listening, do think about coding, because it is one of those skills that I think is permeating lots and lots of parts of our economy and will be a really valuable skill for people to have going forward.
Ed Dernulc 28:41
No question about it. Technology just keeps moving forward, sometimes at a breakneck speed. And for you to keep up with this, you have to have an understanding of how it’s developing.
And coding is one of the major areas that’s really blossoming. I’m seeing kids 10 years old who are coding and are very comfortable in that realm. It’s an area that will only keep growing, especially as we start to develop more AI and more technologically advanced machine and equipment.
It’s going to be more and more prevalent. Everywhere.
Doris Nagel
If you are parents listening, if your kids have any interest at all in coding, find ways to help your kids become more with it. It will serve them well.
You mentioned that a large number of small businesses are members of the Fabricators and Manufacturers Association, which that took me by surprise.
Let’s say you’re someone who maybe has a hankering to their own business. Most people may think big care manufacturers or big Fortune 500 companies when they think about manufacturing jobs, but I have no doubt that there are lots of and will be in the future lots of opportunities for people who have an interest in starting their own business, whether it’s making a product or providing a service.
Where do you see some of the most interesting possibilities for future entrepreneurs in the manufacturing world?
Ed Dernulc 30:39
It’s a great question. I think any kind of fabricating business is going to continue to grow. S
A great example is the automotive industry. When they go to put in a muffler, the fabricating of that muffler and that tailpipe is not done by Ford. It’s done by a job shop somewhere . That could be Rochester, Minnesota, or Knoxville, Tennessee or really anywhere.
So there’s always going to be a need for that fabricating end of it because Ford is more about putting together the jigsaw rather than actually making the parts.
Another area that is growing is any CAD-CAM kind of fabricating. There will always be a need for that. That’s an area where you see guys who literally start a business in their garage, and they get one machine and next thing you know, 20 years later they’ve got a $40 million business.
I would also say that there’s plenty of growth on the on the manufacturing side itself. During the pandemic, how well you did really depended on what business you were in. If you were in health care or physical fitness, you couldn’t keep up with the business you were getting.
Doris Nagel
I heard that Peloton, for example, had a huge boom. Their machines were backordered for quite some time, even as their prices went up. and up and up.
Ed Dernulc 32:18
Exactly. The boom in home workout equipment was astronomical.
One of our members said he had taken on a job from Life Fitness. And it was a nice $60,000 order, but he assumed it was just a one-off order.
But two years later, he said it was the one thing that kept this company afloat during the pandemic. Because this small little order blossomed into millions and millions of dollars, because that company couldn’t keep up with the orders that they were getting, because people were locked in their homes.
It was the same with health care, which was expanding during the pandemic. Hospitals couldn’t get enough beds, couldn’t get enough of all the other equipment that was needed to fight COVID.
So if you were in that side of the manufacturing, you couldn’t keep up. You were having record sales.
Doris Nagel
I think your point goes back again to the myths of manufacturing. A lot of us think about the automotive industry or big machines when they think about manufacturing.
But really, if you just look around you — wherever you’re sitting – and think about the furniture you’re sitting on, the computer or phone you’re typing on, or the products you used today to take a shower or do your morning routine — somebody has to make all that stuff. Somebody has to design it and be involved in the purchasing and the supply chain and making it and getting it to people, right
Ed Dernulc 34:06
Absolutely. When I go speak at these camps that we go to, I always ask, “Have any of you ever heard of Apple?” And they look at me like I’m crazy, and say, “Of course we’ve heard of Apple!” And then I ask them if they realize that Apple started in the garage of Mark Wozniak’s mother.
It was a small, entrepreneurial business when it started off. Now, it’s probably the greatest company in the world today. And they make stuff.
I’m not saying every person that gets into manufacturing is going to have an Apple experience. But there’s certainly the potential that it can happen.
Doris Nagel
And we’ll always need plumbers and tradespeople. And by the way, a lot of those people make a really fine living. That’s maybe another myth, because some people don’t quite understand that some of those folks who have built those businesses make a mighty fine living.
But the companies that can blend the technology with manufacturing — that sweet spot where Apple and Microsoft and some of these other companies live — , there’s some pretty interesting things that will develop there.
Just as one example, I recently had a guest on the show from Harper College talking about drones, and all the things that are likely to happen with drones.
There is an example of the intersection of technology and manufacturing. Somebody has to make the drones, somebody has to program them, somebody has to have the knowledge of what industries need to use the drones, and to repair them. So just within that little subindustry, there are and will be loads of opportunities.
Ed Dernulc 36:05
No question. We were recently in Tampa, Florida where one of our camps had a drone coding camp. The campers built the drone, and then they had to code that drone, programming it to pick up a small box and move it from one end of the room to the other. And just to your point, Doris, it was an amazing thing to watch.
And who knows what other industries are going to pop up in the next. Few years?
Doris Nagel
Absolutely. I mean, who even know about drones 10 years ago? Nobody was taking about them.
Ed Dernulc 36:47
Who was talking about cell phones 25 years ago? I’m going to date myself, but I remember when a phone was called a cordless phone. It wasn’t called a cellphone yet. And it was the size of a football.
So you had this huge box next to your ear. And now, everyone — literally everyone– has a cell phone that is probably an inch wide, and fits into your jeans or your sport jacket, or whatever. And literally, you can’t live without it.
Doris Nagel
In many developing countries, cell phone technology allowed them to completely bypass the whole landline network. They went straight to cell phones. Who needed landlines anymore?
Ed Dernulc 37:43
Correct. And think landlines are going to be probably extinct in the next decade, if not sooner.
So it’s just amazing to see the progress of technology, and in how manufacturing is trying to keep up with that, that that technology that tsunami that dead, it’s not slowing down, that’s for sure.
Doris Nagel
I want to touch on another myth – one that is near and dear to my heart, and that is the myths around women in manufacturing.
I happened to see something about Rosie the Riveter the other day. That predates us, Ed, but it reminded me that, in the throes of World War Two, women in manufacturing were celebrated.
Rosie the Riveter was this iconic, powerful woman who was helping with the war effort. She celebrated women actually doing riveting and welding.
But today, there aren’t many women in manufacturing. They’re certainly way underrepresented. I’m sure you’ve got as good a statistics about that as anyone.
And there are even fewer who have started their own manufacturing company or own a manufacturing company, or are even in senior management positions.
So what’s going on there? How did we fall from celebrating Rosie the Riveter to somehow women in manufacturing being kind of an anomaly?
Ed Dernulc 39:34
I could not agree with you more. We need our next Rosie the Riveter moment.
People don’t realize during World War Two, the tanks were built by women. The airplanes were built by women. The rifles in guns were built by women. The men were all fighting, and the women were building this stuff.
And we need that moment. We have about a 2-million-person skills gap today. And it’s only growing.
Doris Nagel
What do you mean by that?
Ed Dernulc 40:04
We have a shortage today of individuals needed in manufacturing of about 2 million. We can’t find the welders, we can’t find the plumbers, the HVAC, the trades. We just can’t find them.
And on top of that, we have this current generation of boomers who are starting to retire. And there is no backfill. There’s no one to take up the mantle.
If we look at the population, let’s say it’s split 50/50 between men and women. But women only make up about 12% of manufacturing employment.
Now imagine if we could just get that number to 30%. There would be no skills gap. You would have abundant employment in manufacturing. You would have abundant skilled labor just by encouraging women to get into the industry.
By the way, NBT does have Glow and Gadget camps, which are just for young ladies. Glow as in welding, and gadget is for the design side.
In these camps, young ladies experience working with other young ladies and are taught by ladies how to find their way into the manufacturing world.
And we highly encourage this, because we are not going to solve our skills gap shortage unless we encourage more women to get into the industry.
Doris Nagel
But what’s going on, do you think? What does your research or your anecdotal evidence say about why no one wants to be Rosie the Riveter anymore? What happened?
Ed Dernulc 41:59
So I think there is the myth again that manufacturing is dirty, dark, and dangerous. But that applies to both men and women.
I also think there’s a misunderstanding as to the wage that you can make. If you are a welder manager, you will be making around $125,000. And many of these are doing this at 28 or 29 years old.
Doris Nagel
Whereas some of my daughter’s friends with a college degree are starting out at 50 or 60K. And they’re happy to have a job.
Ed Dernulc 42:36
Exactly.
And then I think the third myth is that it’s just unladylike. But we’ve got to get beyond that.
Because the way men and women approach a task is different, and we need both approaches. I describe men as linear and women as dimensional.
If you give them a man a task, and he’s going to go through step A to step B through C through D. And that’s wonderful to get through the task.
But if you need concepting and designing and problem-solving, you want a woman doing that, because they think in three, four or five dimensions.
That’s not just me thinking this. This is what I’m told by manufacturing owners probably a dozen times.
Women are just better overall at conceptualizing. If you have a project with a deadline, and it’s got to get done, you probably want to give that to a man. Women can do that as well, but men are more likely to go through brick walls to get that project done.
But if you want to design and develop new products and services in manufacturing, you want a woman leading the charge. They are far more think out of the box, or ask “Have you thought of this? Why don’t we try this?” They take far more risk and are more comfortable taking risk.
Doris Nagel
We need the few women who are in leadership positions in manufacturing, whether they’re in big companies or they have their own companies, to be more vocal and spend more time and outreach because their stories need to be told.
Ed Dernulc 44:42
It’s happening slowly. At Elgin Community College two years ago, they graduated I think 10 ladies in their welding program, and all 10 of them got jobs.
I’ve talked to them again recently, but I believe the program has grown to like 15 women.
So it’s very encouraging to see young ladies looking at things like being an electrician or being a welder. Because we need them in the industry.
When I see a young lady who is getting into the manufacturing industry, I’m very, very thankful. And it brings a lot of pride to me.
If you go on our website, you’ll see we had a young lady at our gala named Madison Martin. She got into manufacturing because she was inspired at one of our NBT camps. She went on to get a welding certificate and was going to become a welder for a local business.
And it was all because of an MBT camp. It was very moving. And we need more people like that.
Doris Nagel
I’m just thinking that there is also a wonderful opportunity for women in trades. If you want to start your own company and have a woman-only electrician business, you’re probably going to have a lot of doors open to you.
Ed Dernulc 46:21
30 years ago, a manufacturing manager would say, “I don’t want a woman working on my manufacturing line.”. Today, they’re more likely to say, “When can she start?”
Doris Nagel
That’s a great attitude to have, because we need to encourage women with open arms, and we need more inclusion.
You mentioned that NBT has been in existence for about 15 years.
Ed Dernulc
Actually, we’ve been doing the camps for 15 years, but we’ve been in existence for about 24 years.
Doris Nagel
And you’ve even done research on effectiveness of various programs. So talk about some of the successes of the program.
You get a snapshot of kids at these camps between ages 12 and 16. But you’ve now got some history to see what happens to some of those kids after they leave camp.
Talk about the successes of the program.
Ed Dernulc 47:18
So as I mentioned, we had Madison Martin speak at our gala and it was just a wonderful speech that she gave about how she was inspired by being in an NBT camp.
And we look for those stories every day. We want to connect with those students.
We’ve had young adults who have had scholarships and have spoken at our events, sharing how important a role a scholarship played for them to get through their program. And now they’re in the manufacturing industry.
Just the fact that 15 years ago, we only had one camp, and today we have 165 is amazing.
Doris Nagel
That’s insane growth. And I’m just thinking of that growth as an entrepreneur– the skills that you need to grow that quickly.
By the way, on a previous episode, I had someone in nonprofit management talking about the entrepreneurial skills that you need to grow a nonprofit.
And Ed, you’re living proof of this. Because for NBT to go from running a couple of camps locally to 165 all over the country, and in Canada to is an enormous scaling challenge, by the way.
Ed Dernulc 48:37
We have a wonderful program director and trust me, she’s very busy all the time. And our board has been very adamant that they eventually want us to get to about 250 camps, probably over the next five years.
So when you are looking at scaling like that, you need human resources to be able to do that. And you also have to think about funding.
These are things that keep me up at night. Because as I’ve mentioned a couple of times, failure is not an option.
We have to figure out how to do this. And we will. As we ask our industry to be more entrepreneurial, so should NBT be more entrepreneurial.
Doris Nagel
You mentioned funding. I assume that the Fabricators and Manufacturers Association is the primary source of funding for the NBT program, but probably not the only source. Talk about that for just a second.
Ed Dernulc 49:39
You are correct — FMA basically covers the costs of our administration. Our salaries and our basic operating expenses are all paid for by FMA.
And that guarantees that 100% of the dollars we raise goes toward our programs. So if we get a $100,000 grant from an organization, they can be assured that $100,000 will be put towards our programs.
We have partnered with a number of manufacturers throughout the country. Mazda, Cincinnati Manufacturing in Cincinnati, Ohio, Mitsubishi, and Trumpf are all great, great partners.
And there are many, many others that have sponsored us this year. For the first time this year, Nestle USA is a national sponsor for our camps.
So the word is getting out. We’re making inroads and raising more dollars.
But the bottom line is, if we want to continue this growth, we have to continue growing our funding sources. So we’ve had great partners support these camps since over the last five years.
Miller Electric, CNA, and Farmers Insurance Groups and companies like them have been funding us for a number of years. So we partner with a lot of companies and will continue to do that. And it’s a labor of love. We love connecting with people. Many of the people that are donating to us want a legacy because of their involvement in the manufacturing industry all their life.
Doris Nagel
If people are interested in learning more about FMA, or about the Nuts, Bolts and Thingamajigs Foundation, what’s the best way for them to learn more and to connect?
Ed Dernulc
Our website is https://www.nutsandboltsfoundation.org/. You can go there, and you’ll see our programs and events, and you can meet our board of directors.
Doris Nagel
There’s some great videos on there, by the way, that are really fun to watch.
Ed Dernulc
We really try to bring forward all the most pertinent things. You can find our annual report, our newsletters, our impact study — all these things are on the website.
You can also see our events. We have a golf outing coming up. We’ve got our gala in October, where we have an art auction. Instead of a silent auction, we have an art auction. Many of the artists put together fabricated art. So you might have someone who creates an eagle that’s been fabricated, or a firepit, or something like that. Even though it’s an art auction, we really want to celebrate the manufacturing and fabricating industry.
And we always have room for new people who want to learn more about us through our events.
Doris Nagel
Terrific!
Ed, thanks so much for being with me this week. It was inspiring to hear about the work that the Nuts Bolts and Thingamajig Foundation is doing to help encourage the next generations in manufacturing.
Ed Dernulc
Doris, thank you so much for the time we’ve had — we really appreciate it, [because] we really want to make an impact in the industry. And we are very thankful and grateful for a partner like you.
Doris Nagel
Folks, I encourage you to check out the website. And if you’re looking for courses at community colleges or locally or you have kids, make sure you look for these camps. And I’m sure with 165 of them, you’ll probably find one close to you. So thanks again.
And thanks to my listeners — you the reason I do this.
You can find helpful information and resources on my consulting website, globalocityservices.com. There’s all sorts of resources there for small businesspeople and entrepreneurs. I have a new radio show website called thesavvyentrepreneur.org. So check that out as well. You’ll start to see more and more content there.
Check out and my site past show recordings on my YouTube channel, The Savvy Entrepreneur Radio show. There’s just an amazing library of interviews with all sorts of entrepreneurs, and resources for small businesses. If you have a chance, subscribe, listen to, and comment on some of the episodes.
Be sure to join me again next Saturday at 11am Central noon Eastern time.
But until then, I’m Doris Nagel, wishing you happy entrepreneuring!
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